Kid punished | Imamother

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:04 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

Yep, it says that children should bring water bottles and drink during class. It makes no mention that this is so critical that children must be granted permission to refill bottles during class.

It also doesn’t say that you shouldn’t allow a child to refill it and you should make them wait.

There is a certain level of understanding that should be apparent to you as a reader.

It’s encouraging us to allow students water during class.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:07 pm

amother White wrote:

Recommended hospital guidelines, not school policy and certainly not a law.
It does recommend that concerned parents advocate for change, so are you going to contact your local school district or government officials to set such a policy or sponsor a bill?

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:08 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

I'm adamant only about accurate information--you should appreciate that in a teacher. There is a lot of ignorance in the frum world sometimes about government and law. The stuff I have been explaining about how laws work/get passed is stuff I taught in second grade, no joke. You should understand that if you want to know how government works, you need to be award of the difference between recommended guidelines, policies, bills, laws, and so on. And nothing you have posted that water bottle automatic refills is law. If you want it to become a law, you need to understand how the process works.

As long as a school has working clean water fountains they are following the law. As was the teacher in op's scenario.

BTW I never once said anything about my personal classroom policy. So don't assume anything.

I didn’t delineate my background but suffice it to say, I’m not ignorant in this regard.

There is the law which is at the most basic level of society to ensure a safe society and then there is the moral compass of a teacher. Let say there was no law about allowing students access then you wouldn’t allow your students to drink?
You need a law for this?
Thank Gd there is a law but you as a moral and caring teacher should be caring for the full sum of the student. That includes hydration and allowing a child unrestricted access to water.

amother

Slategray

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:09 pm

amother White wrote:

Children don’t need to drink every minute of the day but we the teachers and parents in their life shouldn’t be restricting access. That’s all. It’s a fairly simple concept.
Occasionally life will happen and a child will need to wait but it should never be with intent of control or teaching a child to wait etc.

Sounds like we agree. If a teacher allows water bottles in class, then she is not restricting access. Occasionally, when life happens and the water bottle is empty during classtime, a child may need to wait.

Glad we cleared that up Smile

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:11 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

Other then the making a child wait to refill their water bottle, it seems we have met in our understanding. Thanks for the dialogue and discourse in this important regard.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:13 pm

amother White wrote:

I didn’t delineate my background but suffice it say I’m not ignorant in this regard.

There is the law which is at the most basic level of society to ensure a safe society and then there is the moral compass of a teacher. Let say there was no law about allowing students access then you wouldn’t allow your students to drink?
You need a law for this?
Thank Gd there is a law but you as a moral and caring teacher should be caring for the full sum of the student. That includes hydration and allowing a child unrestricted access to water.

So now you are going to try to recast your previous posts as "law of ethics" instead of government law? Come on, it was pretty obvious you meant in a legal government sense, only now that it's been disproven you are trying to backtrack as though that wasn't what you meant. Just admit you did not have the facts to back up your statements. And go ahead and advocate for changes in local schools or your kids schools, as you feel necessary.

amother

Slategray

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:16 pm

amother White wrote:

Other then the making a child wait to refill their water bottle, it seems we have met in our understanding. Thanks for the dialogue and discourse in this important regard.

An occasional empty water bottle is a perfect example of 'life happens'. So I guess the difference is our viewpoint on 'life happens'.

Imo, if a child finds herself with an empty water bottle during class, that's just a 'life happens' moment. In your opinion that is a critical event and a critical response is required. So we can agree to disagree on whether its a critical event or not.

But I'm glad we agree on the premise. Water should be accessible to all and that children need to learn how to handle 'life happens' moments.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:17 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

The law of ethics that you are referencing to is in addition to the law in regards to water access in schools. Not instead of.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

Life organically has multitudes of instances where life happens and there is no simple fix.

We as teachers don’t need to make those instances more difficult or cumbersome for the students. We can allow them to discreetly refill their water bottle and perhaps conference with the individual student at break on how they can preplan and organize their day so that the water bottle will be full prior to class.

I appreciate our dialogue throughout on the importance of accessible water to all students.

Thank you.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:21 pm

amother White wrote:

The law of ethics that you are referencing to is in addition to the law in regards to water access in schools. Not instead of.

No I'm not referencing anything other than your attempt to abandon your claim that there's a government law that students can have water bottles and refills at all times. You obviously realized there is no government law as you had originally stated but don't want to admit it. I'm sure you'd have quoted it if you'd been able to find one.

amother

Slategray

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:26 pm

amother White wrote:

And teachers generally allow for such. But teachers have the discretion to decide when and how to manage this. So being that this is not a standard occurrence, and the teacher generally seems to be very flexible, there was no reason for the student to react disrespectfully.

So I appreciate your thoughts but I think its equally important to limit extreme stances and to incorporate the needs of others in how we react to 'life happens' moment.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 12:39 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

My claim was that there are laws and regulations in regards to the need for water accessibility for the students. I have quoted in regards to those laws in different posts. Feel free to reread the links and posts in this regard.

In addition, I was referencing to a moral compass of a teacher. As a compassionate caring individual we should allow our students to drink as necessary and we shouldn’t be restricting access.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 1:19 pm

amother White wrote:

My claim was that there are laws and regulations in regards to the need for water accessibility for the students. I have quoted in regards to those laws in different posts.

No, you quoted suggested health guidelines and wrote several inaccurate interpretations of the one law you quoted, which was simply about having drinking water (I.e. fountains) in schools, and the one about federal lunch money grants requiring water with the lunch. No law that referenced kids having water bottles in the classroom, being provided with water bottles, or being given carte blanche to refill their bottles whenever they want.
This is a matter of accuracy. You can argue the moral side of things, but there is no government law on those things as you originally tried to claim.

amother

Cantaloupe

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 2:26 pm

Lol amother white, has it been a while since you graduated school? If my teachers (just a couple years ago) had allowed everyone who said they're thirsty to leave at that exact moment, there would have been few students in class and not much productive learning. Kids learn to take advantage real quick.
Since schools provide reasonable breaks when students are in fact encouraged to fill their bottles and use the bathroom, seems ok for a teacher to be able to use their discretion in what is acceptable for their class in the between time.
The child you keep bringing up who's dehydrated/about to faint and being denied a basic necessity has nothing to do with regular classroom policy.

amother

Feverfew

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 2:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

They drank most of it on the long bus ride and arrived the same time as the teacher so did not have a chance to refill. It was the beginning of the day. They were thirsty the classroom is hot and dry with the heat. They did need a drink urgently that’s not something I’m debating. My question is in this case where they had no opportunity to refill before and did need the drink what was the right solution?

you applaud the kid for doing the right thing and taking care of themselves even at the risk of getting punished. Have a discussion of needs versus wants. When we need to disobey and when we don't.

amother

Blue

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 2:58 pm

Are you or your child a perfectionist? 0I find it's actually a disservice for my dd when you rush at her side. She's a perfectionist at an anxious rigid child. Trouble making decisions.That means she wouldn't be able to tolerate unforseen circumstances. This a perfect safe example that would help with her growth. If she has to go to the bathroom while waiting at the bus stop her choices are go on the bus and use the bathroom in school which could be uncomfortable or go back home and miss the bus. We actually had a different similar senerio. Using this example I would tell her it's not her fault it's OK that she was extra thirty, empty waterbottle happen... her teacher said no.... could she do anything about that? If not, she has a decision to make. Could she wait? Should she fill it anyway knowing their are consequences. I'm proud of her for making her own decision. She has other of these small decisions that she can't ask the whole world to bend for her. If it's a one time disobeying punishment I probably would not be made aware. Unless my child asks for help brainstorming for a solution.

amother

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 3:26 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

Maybe you answered this already... but what is your child's behavior like in the classroom in general? This would make a big difference in my response to the OP.

First time she got in trouble this year. No behavior issues. Really that was my only issue. For a first time offense it seems over the top. And since said kid never misbehaves the teacher should realize it’s an urgent situation for whatever reason.

I don’t even know why I came back on here. The teacher clarified that she realized after that for a first time offense it was too much. She was just frazzled because other kids happened to have been crossing lines that day and this just broke the camel’s back. We didn’t discuss taking any action. And yet on her own she apologized to her and said she doesn’t usually react that way. We have all come up with solutions for the future and moved on.

Waiting for the name callers to come out of the wood work to tell me their outlandish opinions. But I felt the people asking respectful questions deserved answers. I’ll likely regret this though.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 3:57 pm

amother White wrote:

Here is a compilation of some of the laws, regulations and recommendations from the government.
Feel free to peruse.
https://www.cdc.gov/healthysch.....8.pdf

This article has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. It's about strategies to prevent kids from drinking soda, and one of them is making water more available than soda. It's not about preventing dehydration.
I'm not commenting on this particular incident, just saying that the article has no relevance.