Mitzvah tantz | Imamother

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Mitzvah tantz

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Mommyg8

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:03 pm

naturalmom5, your sources mostly talk about dancing before the kallah. That's a Jewish concept, not a Chassidic concept. "ketzad merakdim lefnei hakallah". Litvishe chasunas do this. Very much so.

The way that mitzvah tantzes are done today can often be ... well, I guess that there are all different types of mitzvah tantzes. I am sure that there are many beautiful and tzniusdige mitzvah tantzes, it's just unfortunate that the one and only mitzvah tantz that I was by was - let us just say that I was not impressed.

It was a long time ago, so tznius was not as much of an issue in those days, but the badchan... I was cringing the whole time. The jokes were very demeaning of women, and some were crude as well...

Unfortunately, the chassan and kallah got divorced just a few months later (the husband was abusive). So perhaps this was symptomatic...

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Thu, May 24 2018, 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Crimson

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:03 pm

My family background is largely Litvish, including relatives who would leave a chasuna early if there was a mitzvah tantz.
fast forward to my daughter's chasuna. The family is heimish/Modern but really wanted it, so of course we said yes. My modern machutainiste, they're divorced, was so moved and grateful that we agreed. She said that all the neshamos were there, including from my side, and it was so special.
But I don't get it either.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:05 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

I'm not sure what kind of Mitzvah tantzes you have gone to. But I know that the close relatives and my own Mitzvah tantz were extremely emotional and not only were the men talked about.
I got married during the shloshes Yemei hagballah. The badchan sang about both my mother in law and father in law how they were mekabel the ol Torah years ago (they are geirim) he elaborated on that and sang about the nachas and fruits of their labor that they were reaping. The badchan sang about my non frum grandmother who was sitting there . He said he will sing that part in English so that she could understand . He sang about her character traits and how she was zoche to frum and ehrliche grand children. He sang about her late husband my grandfather how he was looking down from shamayim and reaping great joy. My non frum uncle sat there absorbing every word and crying as my grandmother was sung to.
They sang about my mother , how hard it was for her to raise her children as a single mom and her devotion towards Yiddishkeit . I could go on and on, but it was an extremely lofty and spiritual time. A true eis hisorurus. I davened and felt connected to HaShem during those three hours. I felt so connected to my roots and felt my parents pride .
The men got to dance but the women were praised and sung about. To me my Mitzvah tantz was as spiritual as when I was under the chuppah. Everyone watches the kallah walk around the chosson 7 times under the chuppah and people don't consider that untznius. To me they are very similar lofty moments.
It's not about the dancing. If you understand it and have a meaningful Mitzvah tantz it is a very special moment, b'ruchnius.

What you describe is the beautiful aspect of it, if only mitzvah tanz would be limited to that. And while that part is beautiful, there is no reason for it to go on for 2-3 hours after midnight. Before they even get to this part, they announce all extended family members present, say some good words about each individual and then have a couple of minutes of dancing per round. And all this while the women are seated on a side, (many times dozing off because of the late hour), with their participation being limited to being an audience and watching the same scenario being repeated again and again.

I never mentioned that men were the only ones talked about, I mentioned that men are the only ones who partake in the action. Sitting on a chair, for 2-3 hours, after a loooong tiring day, is asking a lot, and causes a lot of stress the following day or so. Functioning on 2-3 hours of sleep doesn't serve anybody well.

amother

Wheat

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:06 pm

It's my favorite part of a chasunah. I love the grammen, and both men and women are lauded. To me it's always been a time when the menfolk pay homage to the kallah. I've only ever been to eidel mitzva tantzen.

crust

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:08 pm

Beautiful post thunderstorm.

I would like to clarify that grammen and Mitzvah Tantz are two separate and very different things.

Grammen is about 70 years old. Those nonsense long eulogies on every uncle and cousin is maximum 25 years old and therefore I dont connect to it.
Some badchanim are just great in what they do. They touch the emotions of their audiences and they are m'orer chassan and kallah to be mispalel. It is the clim@x of the wedding.

Other badchanim are not so talented but what can you do? Its not like the guest get a say in the choice of the badchan...

Then, there is Mitzvah Tantz which is a mesora going back hundreds of years.

At the weddings I attend the men dont come close to the kallah the entire time. No, she is not surrounded by men not even in a half a circle while dancing with her chosson or father.

Can anybody please post a link to the clip you are referring to?

Last edited by crust on Thu, May 24 2018, 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

White

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:14 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

This! Mitzvah tanz is a Beutiful time. You have to understand to it!

naturalmom5

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:16 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

naturalmom5, your sources mostly talk about dancing before the kallah. That's a Jewish concept, not a Chassidic concept. "ketzad merakdim lefnei hakallah". Litvishe chasunas do this. Very much so.

The way that mitzvah tantzes are done today can often be ... let us say there are different types of mitzvah tantzes. I am sure that there are many beautiful and tzniusdige mitzvah tantzes, it's just unfortunate that the one and only mitzvah tantz that I was by was - let us just say that I was not impressed.

It was a long time ago, so tznius was not as much of an issue in those days, but the badchan... I was cringing the whole time. Let's just say the jokes were of the "fifth grade boys" variety...

Unfortunately, the chassan and kallah got divorced just a few months later (the husband was abusive). So perhaps this was symptomatic...

What you are describing is precisely why the Mishna Brura says that if he could, he would do away with Tashlich. Many Poskim say, if due to the multitude of our sins, Tashlich becomes a social event, one should go privately on a weekday instead...

thunderstorm

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:21 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Unfortunately this is an issue in many situations nowadays. The meaningful moments have turned into social events. Think, a Kiddush, hachnasas Seder Torah, just going to shul on Shabbos and Yom Tov, etc.

amother

Wheat

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:25 pm

amother wrote:

I am intrigued by your perspective which is diametrically opposite my own experience. I love sitting back, taking off my heels and being entertained and serenaded by the men.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:31 pm

amother wrote:

I am intrigued by your perspective which is diametrically opposite my own experience. I love sitting back, taking off my heels and being entertained and serenaded by the men.

At 1 or 2 a.m., after a loooong day and knowing that you have to wake up at the usual time in the morning to either take care of the kids or show up at work?

As its often the case, it's the little details that turn a pleasant situation into the reverse, and vice versa.

crust

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:37 pm

amother wrote:

So why not go home?
I am a many times aunt and great aunt. I never stay after dads except on (very) rare occasion.

ETA to correct; My own dad or my husband's dad.

Last edited by crust on Fri, May 25 2018, 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total

zaq

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:46 pm

crust wrote:

Who is forcing you to sit there? Smile

I am a many times aunt and great aunt. I never stay after dads except on (very) rare occasion.

I would assume that if amother and her dh came together in one car, dw would have to wait for dh to be ready to go home. Or for whoever gave them a ride to be ready to go home. You may live next door to a wedding hall or have no qualms about walking or taking mass transit home alone after dark, but for lots of women that’s not gonna happen.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:47 pm

crust wrote:

Who is forcing you to sit there? Smile

I am a many times aunt and great aunt. I never stay after dads except on (very) rare occasion.

Oh, I don't anymore. I've stopped a long time ago, when being grouchy and functioning in a daze was no longer optional. It's a pity though, that they we can't figure out a way to condense the core of it and cut out the extraneous part so it can be enjoyed by more than a few select family members.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:18 pm

The times when the Mitzva tanz are unfortunately not tzenuis is at "bummy" weddings where the chosson/kalla hug & dance. It's a new trend in the OTD chassidish world. It's so disgusting.

naturalmom5

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:25 pm

amother wrote:

The times when the Mitzva tanz are unfortunately not tzenuis is at "bummy" weddings where the chosson/kalla hug & dance. It's a new trend in the OTD chassidish world. It's so disgusting.

Then its not a M Tantz..

If someone were to make a Siyum and serve non-Kosher cold-cuts, would you question the whole concept of making a siyum...

SuperWify

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:49 pm

mommyhood wrote:

I saw that clip and while I wouldn't call it not tznius since she was just walking I was cringing imagining being the only woman in a room surrounded by men it seems so uncomfortable. Unless the women were there and out of sight of the camera.

This. I felt terrible for her. It’s just so awkward.

While I understand that a mitzva tanz is a great thing I take issue in it when:

1. As in the case of this video clip it’s NOT misamaech the kallah but rather embarrassing.

2. It’s not fine tzinusly for example a friend of mine had a waltz with her DH. Some “mitzvah” tanz.

amother

Smokey

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:51 pm

Op here..
I actually think that the small family-only mitzvah tantzes are beautiful, but the rebbish ones, with thousands of chasidim in attendance is what surprises me.

thunderstorm

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:57 pm

amother wrote:

Op here..
I actually think that the small family-only mitzvah tantzes are beautiful, but the rebbish ones, with thousands of chasidim in attendance is what surprises me.

What bothers me even more is that video clips are all over the internet for the world to view and comment. It becomes untznius because it's so public. During the actual Mitzvah tantz the chasiddim are very busy watching their rebbe dance they hardly pay attention to the kallah. But when you watch a video clip online, the kallah is the only thing you see or notice among throngs of men.

pause

Thu, May 24 2018, 7:24 pm

naturalmom, the clip you posted is not a mitzva tantz. That's during the regular dancing part of a wedding.

pause

Thu, May 24 2018, 7:29 pm

amother wrote:

Op here..
I actually think that the small family-only mitzvah tantzes are beautiful, but the rebbish ones, with thousands of chasidim in attendance is what surprises me.

I'm cringing watching it. Poor kallah.

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