How would you handle this?

Fox

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 11:45 pm

ITA with everyone.

If you want to give some practical help, think about what positive characteristics your BIL has -- and think what kinds of jobs or industries need people with those characteristics.

The suggestion about truck driving is a perfect example. Right now, there is such a demand for truck drivers that companies will offer all kinds of incentives -- many will allow you to drive routes that keep you at home most nights. You don't need to be brilliant or have a degree -- but you need to be calm, level-headed, and able to handle problems that come up.

Or CNC operators who work in manufacturing. It's a great opportunity for someone who has good spatial skills but who may not be academically inclined or an entrepreneur.

Does he have good fine motor skills? My DS investigated going into carpentry. The local carpenter's union offered classes through a community college combined with guaranteed apprenticeships for candidates. I don't recall the details, but apprentices earned approximately $20 per hour, and within five years, they could earn $50-$75 per hour.

In other words, the jobs we've traditionally thought of as "good jobs" may not be suitable for your BIL, and many of them aren't all that great at all. Focus on the qualities he has rather than those he lacks, and suggest to your sister that he be open to a wide range of opportunities.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 11:48 pm

Leriem wrote:

One thing I think everyone here is missing is that parnassah comes straight from G-d. A person needs only to do hishtadlut and the rest is decided by G-d.

Did you notice that every year g-d arranged it that doctors and lawyers make more on average the mailman and secretary? It's never happened that the mashgiach in the takeout earned more than the accountant. So while it's true g-d runs the world, he clearly put a certain order in place.

creditcards

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:01 am

amother wrote:

I've also realized that you have no idea how much people earn and what expenses they have. I've realized that a lot of people with more earnings than me also have much more expenses than me.
I have known accountants that are not busy and barely earn money and are very smart too.
I have known of a great doctor that got sued for no good reason and can't practice until the lawsuit is over.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:05 am

amother wrote:

Yep - the mashgiach in the takeout certainly can make more than the accountant.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:07 am

thanks OP this is the most amusing post I've read in a while

Actually some of those mashgichim do make more than some of the accountants I know, just to set the record straight.

but seriously, in the real world there are plenty of dumb people who are rich. OP why are you so sure that can't happen for your BIL. I mean you don't have to be a rocket scientist to sell on Amazon, you just need capital, a mentor, and some siyata dishmaya in choosing products. Maybe you should suggest to your sister that a mentor is worth every penny in almost every industry. And then help her find one.

amother

Babypink

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:23 am

amother wrote:

Oy vey. I'm not saying that every single accountant makes more more than every single mashgiach. I'm saying that the average salary for an accountant is higher than the average salary for a mashgiach. By a lot. Every single year. The same is true with doctors and lawyers as opposed to cashiers and janitors. Why pretend that hashem doesn't have a seder to the world?

amother

Babypink

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:31 am

amother wrote:

Yep - the mashgiach in the takeout certainly can make more than the accountant.

I'm curious. If your dh has a job that pays 200k a year. He comes home one day and says his friend owns a takeout and needs a mashgiach. Salary is $18 an hour. Dh says money comes from hashem and he has tremendous siyata dishmaya and sees no reason to believe that he will ultimately earn less money if he takes the mashgiach job. Hashem has plenty of ways to send the money. What would you say?

Fox

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 2:53 am

amother wrote:

Yes and no.

It's true if you only look at averages, but it's not true for every individual. For example, some lawyers earn millions of dollars a year through lucrative practices and partnerships at large firms. However, if you don't happen to be one of those lawyers, you may find your income is little more than a mail carrier with a few years on the job. Most of us know a number of lawyers who are really struggling.

It also doesn't take into consideration the opportunity for advancement or movement within a career. A mashgiach might start out earning considerably less than an entry-level accountant, but if he is good at the job, he can eventually supervise industrial food processing plants and earn an excellent salary. An accountant working for a small firm may not have as much room for growth.

That's why it's essential to think about how someone's strengths might play out in a given career path. Lawyers who have a strong entrepreneurial streak are likely to make more than those without. A lousy lawyer who's an entrepreneur almost always earns more than a brilliant lawyer who isn't. An accountant who has developed a unique specialty and works well on a team in a large firm will likely do better than one who sticks to general accounting in a small practice.

At the risk of sounding somewhat hippy-dippy, the people who are most financially successful in any field are usually the people whose talents and interests match the opportunities. No matter how well it is possible to do in a given field, the people who don't have the necessary talents and interests for the available opportunities usually find themselves struggling -- and ultimately very unhappy in their work.

amother

Lime

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 3:59 am

it’s so not strictly about the liquid cash, but benefits.
A really good example is the mashgiach. He might be getting samples of whatever he’s supervising (chicken, fish, canned items) thus saving $$$. I also know a good mashgiach that supervises hotels in the swiss alps. He gets a room and full board at the hotel for himself and family. so while they’re enjoying the beautiful scenery and relaxing, the accountant might not even be able to afford to go on vacation.

To reinforce what everybody has already said, please keep your mouth shut. there is absolutely no benefit whatsoever in sharing your opinion with your sister.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 6:40 am

Fox beat me to it, regarding Union work.

If your DH is strong, sheet rock installation is a great place to start. Most guys hate it, so there are always jobs open. It's indoor work, and year round. Some jobs like roofing, are weather dependent.

If he can paint a wall, the painter's union pays really well!

If he's skinny, he can learn plumbing or electrical work. It's more interesting, and pays even better. (Needs to be skinny, because of crawling under houses and stuff.)

If he's not sensitive to chemicals, working as an exterminator is a great job.

These are all fields that will always be in demand, and they all have the potential for regular raises and advancement. Eventually he could become a foreman, or start his own company.

Tzutzie

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 10:29 am

amother wrote:

I've always wondered about that.
after almost 10 years with this question, my answer to that would be, it isn't about the actual number.

parnusa is how much you end up with. how much expenses you have vs how much income.

someone with 110k expenses and 100k income is struggling.

someone with 50k expenses and 55k income is rich. (money wise)

the other points of people not being the 'sharpest pencil in the bag' was already addressed.

just try to help her brainstorm if you can. and may he have good mazal.

if you really want to help, pray for her and keep your opinions to yourself.

Orchid

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 10:30 am

I love this thread because while everyone disagrees with OP, there's no nastiness and OP herself comes across as very caring.

Like others have said, there are great jobs for "not deep people."
TSA agent
DMV worker
Postal employee
any govt worker - great benefits and pension, no need to think other than follow orders

As someone mentioned- truck driver
Many blue collar types of jobs - painter, mover etc.

Please don't think it's your job to "break the news" to your sis that her husband is in for a rude awakening. A - it's not your job, and B- it's not fait accompli that he won't be successful. Instead C- maybe help them research and find a job that would be a good fit for him.

InnerMe

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:18 am

Orchid wrote:

I agree with your observation, orchid, and with what everyone else is saying.

Op, it seems like it's coming out of caring, you'd like to protect them from a "rude awakening" but ultimately it's not your job, and wouldn't be the right thing to do. Not for you and not for them. Let nature take it's course.

momsrus

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:31 am

amother wrote:

There are just as many people losing money on Amazon than making money. I would take this advice with caution.

debsey

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:54 am

OP you do sound caring! I agree with the advice above - a hands on job, repairman, plumbing, electrician, HVAC installation and maintenance - I'd talk to her about how this is a stable sector, well-paid, with opportunities for advancement - as much as technology becomes obsolete, people will always need plumbers and exterminators! It's a savvy business move. Package it like that.

ShishKabob

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:00 pm

Did anyone hear of this yet?
Shlomo Hamelech said and he was the smartest, wisest person in the entire world.
"Lo L'Chachamim Lechem"

OP, A man that has such a wife behind him, that thinks he's terrific in whatever packaging he comes with, such a guy can conquer the world! He can rise to the top, wayyy faster than a guy that is very smart, but has a wife that has no faith in him!