Is DD spoiled or justified?

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not as mystified as most people are about her embarrassment. Living out of town - the clothing she wears is unique and everyone recognizes it. It feels special to her. Then to have someone else's nerdy (in her eyes) younger sister walking around wearing it and having everyone point that out - is embarrassing to her. I still think the chessed should outweigh that feeling, but I understand her.

Ok, I'll say it. I'm sorry OP, but this attitude is just not cool. She is being snobby and you are enabling that. She doesn't want to see a girl who she perceives as nerdy wearing her clothes? Because then what? She thinks people will then think she is also nerdy for wearing it in the first place? SO WHAT?! She needs to get over herself. She can give her clothes to a girl locally who needs it and see that she will survive and even feel good to see the new recipient enjoy the clothing. Clothing is mass produced and she is not special, (nor is the clothing for that matter) for wearing it. This is like, literally enabling her to become one of those girls that have that attitude that I just cant stand.

If people ask her if the clothes was hers, all she has to do is put on her big-girl panties and say "yup! I'm so glad to see someone get to enjoy it!". Done.

I remember one of my friends got a pair of shoes that she felt was unique, and then a friend got the same pair and my friend bullied her into returning them - and the girl DID! Where does this come from? I gave my friend hell for that. Is this the type of attitude that we are enabling?

ETA - there are actual halachos about our tzedaka staying within our daled amos.

groovy1224

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Any recommendations for how to have this conversation with her? I have already tried explaining to her what a big chessed and zchus it is and no-go. I don't want to just say "too bad"

Maybe explain that as uncomfortable as it makes her, imagine how the girl on the receiving end feels. It's a huge bracha to be on the giving end, and even though sometimes it may be a little unpleasant, it's a big zechus that doesn't really cost her anything.

If you think she would be receptive to this kind of thing, maybe also gently express that she is growing out of her childhood years, and as she shifts into becoming a young lady, it behooves her to consider the situations of those around her, not just her own feelings and preferences. If she reluctantly agrees, praise her for her sensitivity and express pride.

giselle

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:31 pm

This is so interesting to me. My daughter feels so good that her cousin loves wearing her hand me downs. Makes her feel special. In general, I find that some people are very touchy about hand me downs. My sisters and I always give each other clothing and it has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. My daughter loves getting bags of clothes and choosing the ones she likes. She likes it a lot better than shopping for new clothing because she hates trying everything on. My husband on the other hand always hated the concept of hand me downs. He was so embarrassed when someone complimented my son on a blazer and he told them, my friend gave it to me. I think it might have to do with him feeling that he had to wear hand me downs as a kid. I always try to tell him, it's not because we can't afford it, but why wouldn't I take a nice piece and use it? Sometimes my daughter will end up with two coats, because I bought her one and then got one afterward from my sister. What could be embarrassing about that?

But I digress. I think you should strongly and firmly encourage your daughter to hand down the clothes as others have said. It's a great opportunity for her to learn how to do Chesed, and honestly I wouldn't stand for it.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:32 pm

I also find this very strange. I am the oldest and only girl, so my clothes couldn't be handed down to siblings. There was a family whose only girl was the youngest, so they could not hand down the older siblings' clothes to her. She was a few years younger than me. A perfect shidduch! My outgrown clothes all went to this girl. It was not weird at all. The family was grateful but not uncomfortably over the top about thanking us. I was always happy seeing favorite outfits still being enjoyed by someone. From what I understand, when she outgrew the clothes, those that were still in good condition were sent to cousins in Israel.

I do find your daughter's attitude strange. Definitely worth digging deeper and trying to convince her to be ok with it. Failing that, how about you tell her that if it's so important to her that the clothes be sent outside the community, then SHE is responsible to make the arrangements. She has a weird hang up? Then she can make her own accommodations for said hang up, including researching organizations that can pick up the clothes, arranging the pick up, etc. Tell her she has two weeks in which to make the arrangements, otherwise you will just do exactly what you've been doing until now.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:43 pm

watergirl wrote:

How did you get that OP's daughter is snobby and the younger sister is nerdy?

OP should certainly take her daughter's feelings into account. Her daughter deserves to be heard instead of stepped on. How many threads are there where the mom's do tzedukah on their family's back. She doesn't want it. For all we know the younger sister of her friend wears it much better.

My niece is a big girl. DD isn't. When we got hand me downs from her, I would alter the clothes to fit. My niece didn't like the comments about people comparing them. My sil stopped giving me hand me downs, and I don't blame her.

She is unlike your friend with the shoes. She isn't bullying someone not to wear the same thing as her. She is choosing not to give her stuff when she is uncomfortable where it is going.

Rappel

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Any recommendations for how to have this conversation with her? I have already tried explaining to her what a big chessed and zchus it is and no-go. I don't want to just say "too bad"

Possible solution, based on example -

We had WAY too many toys when we were kids.

After the Gaza expulsion, my mother told us we were donating toys to the families. I was 11, my sister 9.

At first, we wouldn't. She insisted we had to.

Then we only gathered up the broken/battered things we really didn't want. She thanked us, and said we had to do more.

She started suggesting boundaries, example: "have you played with that in the past year?" She told stories about kids whom had no toys, no nice things, and how happy this small doll would make them if they had it.

Slowly, slowly, the "keep" pile became smaller, and we also developed a small pile of things which were precious for their memories... And the rest went.

It was an amazing lesson in giving.

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:14 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

OP literally said that her daughter thinks the girl who would be getting the clothes is nerdy. So that's where I got it. And her daughter is a snob, sorry, for not wanting to see a nerdy kid wearing her old stuff.

This is not a case of giving tzeddaka on the back of someone else. That would be the case if the grandmother bought her the clothes and before she ever got to wear it, it was given away. In this case, she is finished with the clothing and someone else could use it.

This daughter is 12. She is a CHILD. Since when do we follow the wishes and whims of a child in this manner? Do people out there give their kids THAT much power and control? Over something as trivial as what to do with no longer being worn clothing? So this CHILD is not comfortable with where the stuff is going? She is a CHILD and resilient. She has to LEARN to be comfortable.

I have a teenage daughter. We give all of her old clothes to my friend's daughter and my daughter gets a thrill out of seeing it being worn and enjoyed again. When I first started giving the clothes to her, my daughter's concern was that the FRIEND might feel uncomfortable or bad, like a chessed case. Her concern was for the other kid's feelings, not her own. Isn't that the way we want our kids to be? Empathy is not always innate. Sometimes it has to be taught.

My daughter does have a few items that she cant bear to part with because they are sentimental for whatever reason. A sweatshirt that my mother gave her, which was the last gift before she passed away. We had it made into a pillow for her to keep on her bed. Another dress that she loved but cant fit into anymore... she is crafty and made into a beach bag.

What are we actually teaching our kids when we allow these comments to pass and slide and alter OUR behavior (ie, stop giving clothes to them) rather than show them that this is not the right way?

RE: the bold - for goodness sake, this is about CLOTHING! This is such an elitist attitude. So the girl wears it better than her and for THAT reason, its ok not to give? Seriously? What are you suggesting is ok and acceptable? These are kids! I shudder to think about what these girls will be like when they grow up if we allow this. If my daughter ever told me not to give her old clothes to someone because it looks better on the other person... she would be wearing only goodwill from now on. If that's not snobbishness, I dont know what is!

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:47 pm

watergirl wrote:

OP's daughter is bas mitzvah age. She deserves to have her feelings taken into account without being labeled as defective.

If OP said she never wanted to do any chessed, perhaps I would agree with you. But not every chessed is right for everyone, and it doesn't make them a bad person to say no.

The same people who kept the clothes on the floor asked to borrow some things of DC. They tried using the chessed argument, but they were so disrespectful with the hand me downs, that it was easy to decide to say no.

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:50 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

It could also be cultural. In Germany and many other European countries, for instance, sharing personal toys while playing is not something a child is expected to do. There are "shared" toys that belong to a playground, but if a child has a playdate and a friend wants to play with a toy, there is not a "concept" of needing to share. On the other hand, if my child would not share I would probably confiscate all of their toys so that is the cultural aspect.

Last edited by amother on Sat, Jan 02 2021, 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:57 pm

On a Hashkafic level, I agree with Watergirl. Ideally, our children should all be ready to learn good middos, chessed, etc...they should be proud to benefit others, happy to give what they no longer need to someone else.

On a realistic level, our children don't always measure up with what we'd like and even what should be. Sometimes we have to take our children at the level they are at and work with what we are given.

If OP's daughter is not ready to learn the lesson, then forcing it on her by just telling her this is the right way, and shaming her very human feelings, may seriously backfire.

I think this thread has some good ideas about how to talk to your child and see if she is workable with giving her clothes to someone in need. Try to teach her empathy, try to teach her what it might feel like to be a girl who doesn't have those kind of clothes in the first place, and how good it feels to be gifted those by someone who doesn't need them anymore.

But at the end of the day, if your daughter cannot overcome her feelings, I feel they should not be ignored.

Here is where your example comes in OP. You know, telling kids "do as I say" doesn't work. "Do as I do" is much more powerful. If you are trying to teach your daughter empathy and giving, but you are not willing to go the extra mile of hardship to find a place to donate it to that is comfortable for her, then you are not modeling what you are preaching. You are taking the easy way out, so why shouldn't she.

If at the end of the day she sees that you will go the extra mile to ensure the clothes go to someone who needs them, she may learn something about sacrificing to be giving. Let her see how much this means to you. In fact, try to involve her in it (packing it up, shlepping, etc...)

But if you just give it to the 2nd hand resale shop, the lesson may very well be lost on her.