I'm speechless | Imamother

pause ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:46 am

groisamomma wrote:

Uh...because "he" is a woman?

People forget that fair doesn't mean equal. Fair means giving each person what *they* need. Women don't use urinals. Men don't wear tampons.

Don't worry. Urinals in the ladies' room will happen soon enough. Don't you know that there are women who have p3nises?

roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:13 am

pause wrote:

Don't worry. Urinals in the ladies' room will happen soon enough. Don't you know that there are women who have p3nises?

There are many intersex congenital conditions that people are born with, with all different variations of genitals and genetics.

I don't think using this kind of mocking language and tone is appropriate. Yes, there are actually many women born with p--nises. Just like there are all kinds of congenital abnormalities of other body parts, there are congenital abnormalities of genitals as well. There is a possibility that some of these conditions exist amongst women on this board. Or amongst their children. Can we please replace the mocking language with empathy and understanding.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:19 am

Due to these intersex conditions, there are all kinds of variations in terms of gender presentation and expression, based on hormonal differences, genital development, and other factors. The issue is extremely complex.

I know that people like to use "bathroom issues" to mock "liberal agendas". But the reality is that the issues are heavily medical as well- in addition to psychological- and inclusion of all people, body types, and sensitivity to their needs is the marker of a compassionate society.

Rachmanim. Baishonim. Gomlei chassodim.

sushilover ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:40 am

It's scary how quickly the world can turn upside down and things that were ridiculous just ten years ago can cause you to be labeled a bigot.

There's a story in the news today about a researcher in London who lost her job because she tweeted that a man cannot become a woman just through surgery. At the employment tribunal case the judge stated that she "violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating, or offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society."

All this for stating biological facts. What is happening?!?

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:41 am

roses wrote:

I'm all for rachmanim. However, the liberal world has taken it way to far. It's a real upside down world. I read that the widow of the Ecuador man who was killed in Jersey City stated that she forgives the killers. How crazy is that?

I'm not a learned woman. So I can't bring you exact quotes. However, I think that there's a mishna that those who will be kind to the killers will eventually kill others. What a sad society to raise kids today. How lucky we are to have the Torah as our guide.

As an aside, I don't think that anyone who has this condition would use a urinal in a ladies room.

↑ sky

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:45 am

srbmom wrote:

Quote:

The article said exactly that. Men can give birth...

Sure. But how many if these "men" are actually doing that. I think it should be a rule that if you want to be a woman you need to give birth

I read an article recently where a man arrived to the hospital in horrible pain.
It was noted he was male and obese.
He later gave birth to a still born
They didn’t think to check because no one told them he was born female (He didn’t realize he was pregnant).
There are lots of new issues that going to come from all of this.

Last edited by sky on Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total

chanatron1000 ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:47 am

imasinger wrote:

I can no longer say "to each his/her own," it's too "binary". To each their own?

I identify as an individual. Don't misquantify me by using "they".
_{I understand that the post wasn't addressed to me personally. I am counting myself as part of the group of people (population of world) to whom the phrase "to each his/her own" applies.}

Last edited by chanatron1000 on Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ allthingsblue ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:48 am

Like Rabi Akiva who laughed when he saw the fox roam the ruins, this is a sign that Moshiach is near because the days preceding Moshiach will see tremendous confusion with right turned into wrong and vice versa.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:49 am

freilich wrote:

The Torah mandates that we treat all people with dignity and respect. This includes people with hidden disabilities such as gender disorders. I don't think doing so makes the world upside down or crazy.

In terms of the widow- forgiveness is a personal, emotional choice. Which has nothing to do with justice. A person can choose to forgive while simultaneously pursuing justice. In this case, the murderers were killed and that was their justice. But how can you fault the widow for her own personal, emotional reaction to her tragedy?

↑ chanatron1000 ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:50 am

srbmom wrote:

Sure. But how many if these "men" are actually doing that. I think it should be a rule that if you want to be a woman you need to give birth

Wait, what?

↑ sushilover ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:52 am

roses wrote:

Pause was making a joke about the idea that women can be men and men can be women. It is a real belief that many people are ascribing to these days, and a belief that is worthy of being mocked.
Your self righteous woke-scolding is not fair to someone who clearly was not trying to hurt anyone with real intersex conditions. She is not lacking rachmanus by simply pointing out the ridiculousness of a situation. (As an aside- there are plenty of Transgender and intersex people who mock the idea as well.)

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:55 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Maybe it's a sign of right turned into right. Of the world becoming a better, kinder place where people with gender disorders aren't shamed, mocked and harassed?

People with visible disabilities used to be shamed, mocked, excluded and harassed all the time. With awareness, societal change, and legislation, there's been improvement (not enough) in that area. Why should people with more subtle or hidden disabilities be subject to shame or exclusion? Because their disability relates to genitals? And we like to mock anything related to genitals or s-x?

And FTR there are numerous Torah references to intersex conditions. I don't know of specifics, but I know they exist. They are not a modern invention. What is modern is that it is no longer cool to mock people and exclude them because of it

↑ allthingsblue ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 11:56 am

roses wrote:

Did the article state the reason as being for handicapped individuals or for LGBTQ individuals?

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:02 pm

sushilover wrote:

Perhaps people aren't aware of intersex conditions. I took the time to educate them.

And no, it's not a ridiculous situation for a girl to be born with a p-nis. Or other gender and genital variations. It is an unfortunate, difficult, challenging situation. With lifelong implications.

Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born with a cleft palate?
Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born with Down Syndrome?
Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born missing a limb?

So why are people with intersex conditions worthy of ridicule?
Why are any of Hashem's creations worthy of ridicule?

↑ allthingsblue ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:09 pm

roses wrote:

I'm not understanding your question

I'm questioning if the origin of this demand for tampons in the men's room is from an organization representing disabled people, or representing LGBTQ people.

↑ leah233 ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:10 pm

roses wrote:

And no, it's not a ridiculous situation for a girl to be born with a p-nis. Or other gender and genital variations. It is an unfortunate, difficult, challenging situation. With lifelong implications.

What makes her a girl if she is born with a p-nis?

Do you mean a hermaphrodite?

1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:29 pm

roses wrote:

Do the girls who are born with a p-nis use the boys bathroom? Do they menstruate? Because if they dont use the boys bathroom and/or dont menstruate then its not what the article is about. The request to have sanitary products in the boys bathroom is because of transgender "men" who may still be getting their periods so please stop conflating the two issues.