Why does H’ give people trauma?

↑ Inner Beauty ↓

Thu, May 11 2023, 3:18 am

Empowered Mommy wrote:

We don't have answers to this question on this world.
I myself used to feel very spiritual and constantly listening to shiurim, saying tehillim, reading self help books trying to work on improving myself/middos, been an uplifting social bug...

It all changed several years ago, after going through several large challenges in my life.
I feel numb. Not connected emotionally, I don't feel like davening, can't listen to shiurim or read self help books...
I just survive and do what I need to physically.

Wow, that’s amazing that you used to do that. I want to give you chizuk, though for what you are saying about now. I once heard that we think that we are the most spiritual and G-dly when we listen to shiurim, because it feels like we are. Those things are good and they are spiritual, they are G-dly. At the same time, situations in life that we are faced with make us into G-dly people because we are practicing what we learned. That is growth. For example, if I am faced with a crying baby who is not going to sleep right away and I would rather do other things but I deal with the baby, I am practicing patience, and after that situation, I am a more patient person than before that situation. H’ puts us in situations, and by dealing with the situations we are growing. You are possibly growing more than you think you are. You might be gaining a lot in spiritual levels more than you may realize. These situations that you are being faced with right now may be giving you olam haba. Going through these situations forges who we are as a person. Look at any 50 year old woman. Compare her to a 20 year old. I don’t know about your opinion, but in my opinion, 50 year old women are very developed people. They do what they have to do in life. (I know there are exceptions to every rule. Anyone reading this, please don’t bash me for this). How did they get that way? You meet an average 20 year old, they are not the same way. Not that I want to put young בנות ישראל down. There is something very pure about young people and I think they are just learning about life. I don’t think they do anything wrong. It’s just that 50 year olds-put them in front of a situation in life where they are not obligated to do something, a lot of times, they’ll take an action and do chessed even if no one is looking. I think that’s because they are developed people. They have been through enough situations in life that made them into giving people. When faced with enough situations in life that require you to give, you become a giving person and that is your essence, your מהות (I feel like a Rebbetzin 😜!). That is G-dly. H’ wants us to become G-dly people. H’s goal for everyone in life is that by the time they get to olam haba, they are the most G-dly people that they can possibly be. That’s what’s happening in life when you go through these situations. You are becoming G-dly, and they are forging you into a more ____ person. Depending on the situation; if the situation requires you to be more patient, you are becoming more patient. If it requires you to have self control, you are becoming more of that type of person, etc. So don’t be down on yourself. You’re not just going through situations in order to be tortured. That’s not why H’ put you in these situations. You’re gaining a lot from this, and I know this might be hard to believe, but it’s good for you.

imasinger

Thu, May 11 2023, 6:50 am

Redbird wrote:

This kind of circular, it doesn't make sense to be the overall purpose of childhood trauma.

If there was no abuse, there wouldn't be a need for people who help with healing from it.

I still need more of an explanation as to why HaShem does this ...

Hashem doesn't abuse people. But Hashem did create us with bechira, and therefore, people abuse people.

Humans are capable of tremendous good, and of tremendous evil. Hashem gives us the choice, and the Torah begs us to choose life and good. But ultimately, not having the choice would make us not human, and would remove something important from the world. And we don't see the whole picture. Our view is limited to a short space and time.

One more thing -- post traumatic growth can lead individuals to good that is greater than just helping other victims. Those individuals give even more to the world than "just" helping others who suffered trauma from abuse.

↑ ap ↓

Thu, May 11 2023, 9:05 am

imasinger wrote:

Aren't the abusers a shaliach? If Hashem didn't want it to happen it wouldnt..?

↑ Redbird

Fri, May 12 2023, 9:54 am

imasinger wrote:

I actually barely blame my parents for the damage they have caused me and my siblings. They are very broken people. They didn't make a conscious decision to harm us. I can't for the life of me understand why Hashem puts an innocent neshama into home where it's potential for thriving is severely stunted.

I haven't seen any explanations that make sense to me. But yes, I recognize that our pea brains cannot see the whole picture and comprehend Hashems ways.

Quote:

One more thing -- post traumatic growth can lead individuals to good that is greater than just helping other victims. Those individuals give even more to the world than "just" helping others who suffered trauma from abuse.

Agreed. I had said in my first comment - Post traumatic growth is a beautiful thing. -- But not everyone gets to experience it, and if yes, it doesn't necessarily outweigh the damage.

jycar

Sun, May 14 2023, 3:31 pm

curlyhead wrote:

I have seen so much growth from my Trauma.
I lost a child a few years ago
I have become a different person from it. I got a lesson 101 in Emnunah and Bitachon.
I have become more empathetic
I have read up so much an grief.
It has changed my relationship with Hashem for the good,
I am going through another challenge now and now I have the strenth to say that if I could go through childloss I can go through anything.

You need to squeeze grapes to get wine.
A caterpiller needs to go into a cacoon to become a butterfly and be squeezed. Getting squeezed makes us into stronger better more empathetic people.

Read up on Post-traumatic growth. It is something I have experienced.

Had a teacher in HS that said the same thing from r chaim shmuelevits

bubbles007

Sun, May 14 2023, 6:17 pm

Redbird wrote:

I can't for the life of me understand why Hashem puts an innocent neshama into home where it's potential for thriving is severely stunted.

An explanation I've come across which resonated with me deeply is an alternative interpretation on the mitzva of כבד את אביך ואת אמך

It's the fifth commandment, part of the first half of the commandments relating to בן אדם למקום when really it would make sense it should be part of the second half of commandments (which are all בן אדם לחברו)

So why is it the first half?
Answer being respect the life G-d has given you, respect and appreciate your unique story of who you became as a result of your childhood experiences.
Don't be resentful, don't blame, don't have anger... rather accept this is who I am, this is what Hashem intended for me for reasons beyond my understanding.

We have no idea what our purpose is in life
But appreciate the person we became (with all our traumas, irreversible damage and resulting limitations) and trust that this is exactly who we needed to be in order to fulfil our purpose

Another view: our neshomas actually chose the parents we're born to, meaning we knew and still chose to be born into whatever dysfunction we experienced.
We knew what our irreversible damage will be...and still chose it

It must be this is what is best for us and our tikkun

shaynala

Sun, May 14 2023, 6:20 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

This is just a version of the most popular questions ever: "Why so bad things happen to good people?"

Moshe Rabeinu asked this question.
The answer was that in order to understand this answer, the whole world would need to be taken apart and examined...
similar to someone asking a question about an intricate tapestry.....the creator answers- the only way I can explain it is if I take it apart and show you...

In this world- there are no answers
In the next world- there are no questions

Emuna, holding on, this is the test of our generation.....we need to hold on to a rope that keeps shaking, and twisting, but we can't let go

mama123

Sun, May 14 2023, 6:39 pm

enjoying kids wrote:

I think the biggest question is about trauma from childhood abuse. We see many people growing from other challenges, really painful ones like illness or loss. But childhood abuse seems only to bring people down and prevent them from being who they could have been. I don't understand it at all.

If you have been failed, neglected, or abused by a parent, you have the capacity to eventually come to a much greater and deeper dependence on Hakadosh Baruch Hu as your father, more so than others with loving parents. Unfortunately not everyone will come to that recognition, but the potential is there. Their very vulnerabilities open them to have a stronger connection and utter reliance on Hashem. Like it says in tehillim, כִּֽי־אָבִ֣י וְאִמִּ֣י עֲזָב֑וּנִי וַֽיהֹוָ֣ה יַאַסְפֵֽנִי . If you've always felt your parents are taking care of you and have your back, you could say you trust solely in G-d, but you'd only be partially truthful. Always, you'd still have that reliance on your parents as well. When your back is up against the wall, THEN you know that Hashem and ONLY Hashem can sustain you. Ein Od Milvado!

sushilover

Sun, May 14 2023, 7:07 pm

There are no good answers.

It does give many people chizzuk to think about the founders of Judaism and how each of them went through terrible trauma and did not just survive, but built our nation.
Avraham with his 10 nisyonos, leah cried until her eyes were soft, david hamelach was treated terribly as a child, all of klal yisroel were tortured- even having to watch their babies be used as bricks by the Egyptians... the list is endless.

Those of us dealing with trauma today are not the "mistakes" or the anomalies, forgotten by Hashem or punished because they somehow deserve it. We have thousands of years of tradition showing us that bad things happen to the best people. And just because they feel or look broken, we have no idea what the future will hold or what their role is in the grand scheme of things.

↑ Inner Beauty ↓

Mon, May 15 2023, 10:58 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

To echo the ultimate lesson of Iyov: We don't know.

I think this does justice. It’s hard to live with the unknown, but in my opinion, nothing can explain why people’s lives have to get messed up. Personally, this is what I think. Trauma really affects people, and can have negative effects on them. The answer that it helps you grow: I think people can grow without trauma. Trauma messes people up, makes them feel like they are not a person. Trauma can affect people’s later relationships, cause them to live in a way that is not according to their values. I think growth can be accomplished without trauma, and people don’t need to go through crazy things in order to grow. I understand people may disagree, but this is my opinion. This is why I feel this answer does justice. We don’t actually know, and it’s something that iyh we’ll find out in the next world. Thank you for this answer.

↑ Inner Beauty ↓

Tue, May 16 2023, 1:40 am

Redbird wrote:

Post traumatic growth is a beautiful thing.But it doesn't make sense to justify all trauma as an opportunity for growth. Not everybody experiences it. And even if yes, it doesn't always outweigh the damage. And you can't blame them.

I struggle with this question too. Especially when people are neglected and abused from when they're a baby, and are d*mned from the start. Some people are damaged irreversibly and never get to live a full life. It's 💔

Yes. I agree with this 100%. Thank you for saying this 🙏! The fact that some people are damaged for life, and they can’t fully enjoy life for the rest of their life from their trauma-this is why I feel the answer of growth does not do justice. Also, I agree with your point that sometimes the damage is more than the growth-this is also why I feel that growth does not do justice. Further, people can be affected mentally for life. If that’s the case, even if they grew from it, they will never be able to enjoy life as much as they would had they not had the trauma. If they grow from it, they still won’t be able to enjoy life fully. That doesn’t make up for the negative effect it had on them for life. Thank you so much!

↑ Inner Beauty ↓

Tue, May 16 2023, 2:02 am

enjoying kids wrote:

Yes. This exactly is why I don’t feel that trauma is justified because of growth. My example of people becoming not frum is to show that these people have been broken down because of it. They are sort of broken inside. People who would have otherwise been frum had they not had such terrible experiences. They go through life not keeping Torah and mitzvos, they feel down to an extent, and they may not live the same quality of life as they would without the trauma, because it’s so painful, it’s hard to forget. The fact that people can grow from trauma does not justify this at all. Thank you for your answer.

↑ DreamerForever

Tue, May 16 2023, 6:13 pm

Inner Beauty wrote:

I think it's important to remember that we don't come to this world on 'our terms': To achieve our perception of fulfillment and happiness in this world.

For whatever reason- and this is also painful for me to accept... Some people have difficult lives; are stunted by their trauma. In our very limited eyes they seem 'broken', not able to accomplish what they want or need to. But in Hashem's eyes - this may have been the plan all along.

Perhaps they have not 'failed'. Perhaps their task and journey is the exact life they are leading. Even if it looks broken to you. Even if it in no way resembles any measure of a 'life well lived'. Who knows?

We simply cannot understand. I'm feeling pained as I write this; because it hurts to accept this. But I think we need to understand deeply that we are there to do His will. To let go of outcomes. Of our perceptions of 'enjoying life', of being 'whole'. There is a Divine plan for each of us. And who is to say that a life we look at as tragic, is not part of the plan; and that perhaps there is value in brokenness too.

Taily ↓

Tue, May 16 2023, 9:17 pm

Inner Beauty wrote:

I Love reading all inspiring replies!

I just want to add that justice is something that is found only in the Olam Haemes, in the next world. We cannot understand Hashem's ways while were in this world, because he only gave us the capacity to understand this physical world.

That being said, We need to constantly strengthen our emunah, talk about it, thank hashem, live it, and hope that we have the stregth to stay strong when a challenge comes our way.

This is the Olam Hatikun. We came down to this world to work, so that we should enjoy our schar in the next world.

As we read when we finish learning Perkei Uvois every week: Hashem wanted to give us the best of pleasure, and therefore he gave us the Torah and mitzvos...