Preteen thinks she's all grown up.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:39 pm

amother Glitter wrote:

I think you should all be kinder to OP. It's her oldest child, she's trying to learn. So instead of name calling and bashing her, please just be kind and talk like a mentch.

Nobody is bashing her or calling her names.

We are stating the objective truth - that she is "controlling" or attempting to "control" a tween-aged girl in matters that shouldn't be controlled.

From experience, attempting to exert this level of control on an adolescent will backfire and result almost certainly of a rebellious adolescent.

You pick the battles that are meaningful and important in terms of guiding a child - part of being an effective parent to an adolescent is letting go and letting the child be independent so long as it isn't dangerous or really would be bad in terms of long term issues.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:41 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

I don't think it's controlling for a mom to tell an 11 year old that she should sit with cousins her age.

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

The cousins might not say anything because who wants to tell someone to their face we don't want you here?

They might just be annoyed and depends on the child she might or might not pick up on it. I think at this age the mother should still guide her child a bit socially if she is not very aware.

A mother should guide but not get into a power struggle.
When the child is asserting herself that much the mother needs to let go and let the child figure it out on their own, and be there to validate the child as needed. No I told you sos.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:45 pm

ra_mom wrote:

OP also said that her daughter also wants to sit with adults and join the conversation. That is very inappropriate. A child doesn't belong in an adult conversation. I'd be very annoyed if a child joins adult conversation and the mom doesn't tell the child that they can't sit there.

amother

Brickred

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:46 pm

I think this is a perfect opportunity to teach some social skills. She's hopefully still young enough to listen. Try to mention to stick to friends who are interested in you.
FTR, op did not mention turning this into a battle so stop calling her controlling. She said she wants to talk to her which is great.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:46 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Right but it might not be fair to the cousins.

It's uncomfortable when someone much younger and yes at this age 3 years is a big difference -especially when she has cousins her own age, it would be very different if she doesn't- is sitting around and listening.

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:52 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

If you think it's better to punish a child thqn make the cousins uncomfortable, then I guess we differ on that.

Parents can only do so much. For the 11 year old who doesn't belong there. For the 15 year old who doesn't want to be there. They each need to figure out how to navigate life when parents won't be around every minute.

Power struggles are worse than ineffective. They are damaging.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:54 pm

ra_mom wrote:

If you think it's better to punish a child then make the cousins uncomfortable, then I guess we differ on that.

Parents can only do so much. For the 11 year old who doesn't belong there. For the 15 year old who doesn't want to be there. They each need to figure out how to navigate life when parents won't be around every minute.

Power struggle are worse than ineffective. They are damaging.

Would you say the same thing if she wants to sit with the adults?

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 12:57 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

Would you say the same thing if she wants to sit with the adults?

Why are you making a child out to be so bad for wanting to sit with adults. Unless there is a consequence like the caterer charging double for adult seats, then you can tell them they can stay if they share your seat, but if they want their own they need to sit where they were assigned.
Children aren't meant to be pushed away. Do they annoy you?

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:00 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I am also not understanding why a tween needs to be segregated from the adults.

As a child I was welcome to sit wherever I wanted and enjoyed listening to the adults talk.

I don't understand what kind of talk adults would be having in these kinds of situations that would be dangerous or inappropriate for a child to hear.

If adults were discussing really personal stuff I would assume they wouldn't be doing it out in the open when other adults would be able to overhear.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:01 pm

ra_mom wrote:

It is inappropriate for a child to join adult conversation. I'd be very annoyed if a mother allows her child to sit with adults. Adults want to be able to have adult conversation without children sitting there.
No, children shouldn't be pushed away. But children don't belong everywhere either and there are times and places where it's inappropriate for children to be. She hae cousins her age. It's not as if she doesn't have company. There's no reason for an 11 year old to be sitting with adults and joining their conversation. That's disrespectful and not well mannered.

amother

Indigo

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:02 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Agree honestly. I never wanted to sit at the kids table. I was so insulted when I was treated as a child, and I felt old enough and mature enough to sit with my mother and aunts. My mother never pushed me away and guess what? I felt validated and mature. To this day in my 30s I was always very comfortable have real conversations with anyone at any age. I can have king real conversations with my nieces who are 10, and my aunts who are 70

Last edited by amother on Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:02 pm

ra_mom wrote:

No one is talking about punishing the child. But an 11 year old can't do whatever they want and it's perfectly ok for mom to tell them to sit with cousins their age.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:04 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Really young children wouldn't annoy me but once they get a bit older and you want to have adult conversation then yes it's bothersome.

I'll give you an example I was once at my aunt's and my cousin left her oldest child there while she went home. She is about the same age as op's daughter, especially we know the mother doesn't like a certain topics are discussed around her, and yes everyone was annoyed that she was just sitting there and listening in.

I think it's okay for children to know that it's not always appropriate to sit with adults. If there is no choice and for example there are no other children her age then no I wouldn't be annoyed, but yes when I go out I want to enjoy myself.

Maybe the ideal would be to never get annoyed and be totally fine with it but I think many adults would care.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:09 pm

And yes I don't need my 11-year-old cousin/niece to know about for example my finances (nothing too private that I wouldn't want adults to know but would be weird if a child listens into) if we're talking about such a type of topic. Especially some children repeat everything they hear. They're not aware what's appropriate to repeat and what not. And even it's not some private thing it's still uncomfortable when they repeat.

amother

Brickred

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 1:14 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I am the mother of the older cousin.

While the rest of the older cousins choose to ignore their pesty younger cousin, my daughter is too sensitive to do that. So the younger cousin sits between my daughter and the girls her age, and doesn't give her space. While my daughter looks forward to spending time with her cousins, she has to listen to non stop chattering of the preteen who might be adorable to cousins her age. And we can't help but wish her mom would teach her some social cues.

While some of you will say that my daughter should communicate and be open about it, why shouldn't the mother teach it to her?

ora_43

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 3:32 pm

amother Glitter wrote:

At a family reunion full of kids?

There are plenty of times I want to talk to adults without kids around. So I make plans with the adults, and don't bring the kids.

Inviting kids and then telling them "but you can't sit with us because you're small and annoying" (yes, obviously you wouldn't say it that bluntly, but that's the essential meaning) is just cruel.

ora_43

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 3:42 pm

Preteens always think they're grown up. It's OK. The more they grow, the more they'll realize they don't have it figured out after all.

Like other posters said I'd let most of this stuff go.

Re: the family reunion, I do think it's appropriate to say, eg, 'honey, I have something I want to talk to aunt X and aunt Y about privately, is it ok if you go (wherever) and we'll see you in a few minutes?' It would also be appropriate to find an excuse to pull the kid away from her older cousins for a couple hours - say that you need her help, say that grandma wants to talk to her, whatever.

I just wouldn't tell her to her face that her older cousins probably don't want her around. I also wouldn't tell her that it's a blanket social rule that younger people shouldn't be around older people. I'd just deal with individual situations as they come up.

And I think that applies in general. It's more obvious for the family reunion (why make general rules for a once-a-year event? in 3 more reunions, she'll be the 15-year-old), but also for daily life, I think it's best to just address the specific behavior. Eg if she's taking more food than she eats, treat that as a 'she's wasting food' issue not a 'she thinks she's so mature but she isn't' issue.

amother

Bluebonnet

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 3:51 pm

interesting...
I'm the youngest cousin on my father's side, my sister is 8 years older then me. I know my cousins better then their kids but I have cousins who have kids my age. Would it be automatic that I should sit with their kids? Thankfully I don't remember the seating usually being like that.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 3:59 pm

amother Glitter wrote:

What topics do you consider adult only?