17 year old just wants to learn in sukka wwyd

watergirl

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:21 am

amother OP wrote:

I feel like a bad mom because he is all day learning in the sukka while my other kids are having a blast. I'm all day trying to convince him let's go to a quiet park to learn, let's just go apple picking so we can bake for yom tov and he's begging me to leave him alone. I just don't know what the right thing is anymore.

I think what he’s doing is OK, but if he really feel that he needs to leave house and take a break, try offering something age-appropriate. I don’t see a 17-year-old boy having a blast getting ice cream, apple picking, or at the park.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:21 am

amother OP wrote:

The right thing is always not to force someone to do something against their will.
Why can’t he make a decision and you respect it? He’s 17!
And also, hodu lashem that he finds more enjoyment in learning than apple picking!!!!
Lucky you! Lucky him! Ashreichem!!

amother

Lily

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:24 am

amother OP wrote:

It's not that I "need " him to come with us. It's more that I don't want him to feel left out, but I guess from the replies I can leave him alone.

He obviously does not feel left out or he would join you!! No one is forcing him to stay home, he is choosing it so he obviously prefers it. He is practiaclly an adult, leave him alone!

amother

Lily

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:27 am

amother OP wrote:

This is exactly exactly my concerns. - rigid and only focused on learning. I'm so happy for him that he found a passion but on the other hand I don't want his sense of self to be tied just to "the kid that learns in the sukka".

Would you say the same if he was in medical school and only focused on his studies?

It's normal for serious bochurim to be only focused on learning at this age. They are not kids anymore and may not need the fun and games and outlets. This is their time to be kuloTorah. The vast majority understand that it won't last forever and things will change once they have wife and kids.

imasinger

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:29 am

I have a 17 year old with ASD who only wants to learn in the sukkah all day.

I am so grateful to HKBH that DS's rigidity is in such a wonderful direction. And that chol hamoed has been beautiful by us so that he can shteig in peace. He's happy to enjoy hearing a bit about the outings at mealtimes. But he would feel worse to lose the learning time than to come.

For my DS, I choose my battles very carefully, and we work to gradually increase flexibility. Right now, joining the family on outings isn't one of them.

amother

Puce

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:30 am

amother OP wrote:

I don’t disagree. Only learning isn’t a great idea at this age.
Sometimes the kids who become passionate about their learning very early on to the exclusion of everything else, are the ones who burn out early. The problem is that you’re his mother. That means you’re no different than the mothers who come here to say their sons don’t want to go to minyan or don’t crack open a sefer. The only advice we can give you is the same we give them. You can’t force teenagers to learn or not to learn. You don’t turn it into a power struggle. It’s not worth making an issue out of it.
There can be lots of reasons your son wants to sit in the sukkah and learn. Maybe he’s a budding masmid on his way to being the next gadol hador. Maybe not. You can be there to guide him as far as he wants to be guided, to encourage him, and to offer opportunities for growth. Ultimately he’s going to have to find his own way.
When he’s not looking, take a picture of him bent over his gemara in your sukkah. You’ll cherish it someday.

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:35 am

amother Lily wrote:

THIS THIS THIS Flower

mha3484

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:39 am

I like the idea of one trip for family bonding and the rest of the week he can do what he pleases. But I have to agree with past posters that those trips are a little babyish for a 17 year old. My oldest is a few years younger and has kind of outgrown those activities. He is happy when I bring ice cream home from the grocery store or take him to get one but its not really a trip he is excited for like my 8 year old is. Maybe he would be more interested in a trip that is suited for his age.

amother

Amaryllis

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:42 am

amother Seashell wrote:

He sounds special. Exactly the kind of boy I would love for DD. Shep nachas.

Clearly I’m in the minority here, but I would be very wary of a boy who cannot find one day out of an available five to spend some time with his family instead of learning. As a parent of multiple boys learning (or who have or will learn) in Brisk or the like, I just want to point that sometimes-NOT always-this extreme behavior comes from an unhealthy place.

In our very yeshivish community, where we tend to romanticize this behavior, it can take a while for people to pick up on it. I’ll never forget a relative of mine with religious scrupulosity (form of OCD/anxiety) whose parents kept hearing how beautifully their son davened… took a while for them to realize that he was repeating every word several times and needed professional help.
My point is that while of course learning Torah is so important, spending time with family has some value as well and extremes of any behavior are often (again, NOT always) coming from an unhealthy place.

OP I’m sure your son’s behavior is coming from a good place but pushing him out of his comfort zone to join your family on ONE activity of his choosing is not something you need to feel guilty about (and like you’re not machshiv Torah).
Btw, I don’t think most high school or Bais medrash rebbeim would tell their talmidim to learn to the exclusion of ALL family activities over bain hazmanim.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:45 am

Starting at around 13 yrs old, I'm rather judicious about making a child come on a family errand or excursion when they don't want to, and there isn't a safety concern with not bringing them.

Might it be more fun if everyone were doing this together? Maybe, if everyone wants to be there.

One child dragged along who isn't into it can sour the whole experience. Definitely by 17 yrs old, I really do a very thoughtful cost/benefit analysis on if I want to make a teen do anything they don't want to do.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:51 am

amother OP wrote:

My son was the same.. from bar mitvah he didnt want to join the trips. At first I also tried but then I stopped. Hes married bh and doing just fine

Shep nachas from your son!

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 10:57 am

amother Amaryllis wrote:

I think this might be about your fears. Learning Torah is a huge deal. It’s the ideal. Now not all boys are cut out for it and it becomes an issue when boys who can’t are pushed into it. But a boy who truly enjoys it and it’s what he really wants to do, I would hope no parent would stand in the way of him living an ideal life as a Jew. Now at 17 is the prime time for him to immerse himself fully. He has no obligations and it’s wrong to interfere.

amother

RosePink

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 11:00 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Sorry that’s selfish. Don’t shlep him Apple picking if he prefers to learn in the sukkah. Unless if you desperately need his help. Otherwise it’s wrong to force him to do an activity he has absolutely no interest in.

Nowhere did I write “shlep him apple picking” as you can clearly see.

I wrote that family time is important so ask him to “come to a park” for a bit. Walk around with family, take some pics and learn there.

There is nothing “selfish” about that. As a matter if fact, it is important. Even roshei yeshiva of old went to resort and mountain areas to get away and recharge. Yes, they learned there. And also walked around and enjoyed the air etc.

Family time is not “selfish”. Quite the opposite. Family time is crucial. Especially to teach that to a teen. It is “selfish” NOT to teach them that. (IMO). They can understand that this is important to mom and do so.

I would not nag to come on all trips. That he CAN decide. But to have family time on this long chol hamoed-that is NECESSARY to teach.

Learning in sukkah is amazing and encouraged and the ikkur and he should do it all day as he feels. And he can also spend a couple hours doing so with family in a different environment. I would not tell him not to learn-if they have a sukkah in the park (as I wrote), then he can do so there.

How can this be “selfish”? Because they don't dictate every little moment of their lives, guess what-thats not real life.

The opposite is true. Compromise, working with others, understanding the importance of family etc. That is what's real.

We are the parents for goodness sake. If they have to be taught that family time is important, we teach that. Even if it means a couple hours at a local park. That is enough. This is ALL part of a Torah life!

(If OP really does not care then leave him be. But is she feels its important, he should do so).

Have much, much continued nachas from your masmid. What a bracha, B”H!!!

Simple1

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 11:05 am

I found there’s a certain age where kids come to the realization that they outgrew chol hamoed trips as they always knew it. Age appropriate options are fewer and less exciting. Eventually they reframe and see Chol Hamoed as an opportunity to spend quality time with family on relaxing trips, or to chill and do what they want. My kids have spent some ChM days kvetching endlessly, so if your son is happy to learn that’s nice! (But only you know your son and if in the bigger picture he’s fine or if he needs a little push to get out a bit.)

amother

DarkGray

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 11:07 am

I would sit down with him and discuss it. You would like him to join on one family outing-can he come up with any suggestions? You may need to be out the box with ideas of where you can go. My teens wouldn't want to go apple picking. The boys loved doing an axe throwing session, but would never dream of coming with to the park with the younger kids. It's a difficult balancing act with a range of ages as the older ones don't want to do 'babyish' things, whilst the younger kids would be happy with a trip to the park.
You need to define what it is you want, do you want him to do something other than learn for 5 days? Or is it you want him to be part of the family and spend time together?

amother

Pink

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 11:23 am

I think it really depends on a lot of factors. Does he interact normally with the family the rest of succos? Or is he more antisocial? Is there social anxiety? Does he feel the need to be very frum that this might be coming from a place of OCD of needing to learn. Bein hazmanim is a time for breaks to go back to yeshiva refreshed. He should definitely be spending time learning in the succah each day but not ALL day. I don't know him so it's hard to know if you need to be concerned, but I have a son like this and there is religious OCD there, and no it's not really normal in his case. That being said I don't know if it will help to force him to come.

behappy2

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 11:37 am

I don't have a son like this but I hope you don't mind if I respond.

You didn't share anything about him that would be worrying. Only you know if it's coming from a healthy place or not. Those are the things that as a mother would be bother me more. In other words if it was coming from anxiety, intensity etc..

Also I would want to make sure he is getting sunlight and exercise.

amother

NeonPurple

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 12:30 pm

For reference, I am not from a family where the men learn in their spare time but my early teenage son is showing an interest in learning.
My opinion is you should let him learn. He can have family bonding time in the evening and on Yom Tov.

He is literally echoing Dovid Hamelech.
אַחַ֚ת | שָׁאַ֣לְתִּי מֵֽאֵת־ה אוֹתָ֪הּ אֲבַ֫קֵּ֥שׁ שִׁבְתִּ֣י בְּבֵֽית־ה