Satmar Rabbi Aaron teitelbaum declares war on DOE

crust

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

Since this is referendum in Satmar... to all of the professionals whose husbands went to high school and got a great secular education (this includes me and my spouse)... Don’t we all wish our communities were as rich, well versed in business and give as much charity as the Satmar community?

While I don’t agree with everything they stand for, I don’t think their derech is such an issue. This is especially true considering the fact that most of their young men are working by age 21 (as opposed to many other Jewish sects).

As I stated earlier, government intervention in education is a DANGEROUS ROAD. I live out of the USA, and our government is pushing a mandatory s-x education course that begins in kindergarten. When they first targeted the Jewish schools, they wanted more hours. It was a downward spiral from there...

I hear what you say about government intervention being a downward spiral.

Lets say we had the power to prevent this.
What do you suggest we do?

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 9:30 pm

amother wrote:

Yes. If you help me find housing, schooling, jobs and most importantly... FUNDING for therapy for my kids to help them acclimate to the new environment and not harbor any resentment for removing them from their close freinds then yeah, I would leave.

Within the hour.

I'll chalk up the pain of being alienated from my family.

I believe that Project Makom will help with all of that. Really. projectmakom.org - please reach out to them.

Nobody should feel stuck.

amother

Puce

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 9:50 pm

amother wrote:

For the record, Tuli Moster failed through the secular elementary schooling that he did get. Why doesn’t he pick up the pieces and go to university??? Get his GED. I don’t see this as a sincere effort of anything other than rabble rousing.

Not that I support the guy, but for the record many chassidish elementary boys fail. There is no seriousness applied to it, and the boys consider it a joke. The boys move up classes regardless.

Moster should get his GED and establish himself, but I dont see how that stops him from holding the leaders accountable. However misguided his intentions are, he does deserve credit for at least trying to make it better for others.

amother

Copper

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 9:53 pm

amother wrote:

I believe that Project Makom will help with all of that. Really. projectmakom.org - please reach out to them.

Nobody should feel stuck.

Do they really offer what you are saying;
HOUSING
SCHOOLS
JOBS
AND FUNDING FOR THERAPY?

If not, that would be an extremely rash and unrealistic jump.

Even if they do offer that, there is a huge risk when taking such a dive.
I don't think my kids will grow into emotionally healthy adults after such a huge culture shock.

How old are you? How many kids do you have? Have you ever tried being alienated from a close knit community? Have you ever tried fitting into a completely new community?
Have you heard of someone that did this and was successful to the point where the higher education was worth the children's emotional wellness?
I am really curious.
Thanks

pause

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 9:56 pm

tweek wrote:

I'm definitely pro education and having schools broaden their secular studies curriculum. Unfortunately however, everything that I predicted in a thread on this topic earlier in the year has come true. I think chassidic society (maybe not satmar yet, but others for sure) was at a place where they were open to change. Maybe not at a level that moster is pushing for, but a change in a positive direction.
As I predicted, as soon as moster got involved, the powers that be were quick to rally up the "gezeiras shmad" rhetoric. It made their stance of keeping kids ignorant seem even more righteous and the fact that he was involved became "proof" that the real goal of education was to turn everyone in his direction.
Those of us who know that you can be educated and still remain chassidish lost our stance because now those who are adamantly opposed can point fingers in his direction. In fact, I know of people who were making headway (true it was in smaller numbers and scales) and are now being shushed because schools are afraid of being seen as having cowed to his pressure.

It is sad that it turned out this way, and I believe this is a noble cause, but I also believe he knew that by getting involved, he wouldn't actually be able to effect change within. He lived in this society long enough to know that because he is the one bringing this to the forefront it will turn into a skewed "holy war". That is why I don't believe his campaign (although important) was started with good will and proper intentions.

As I said on page 1 of this thread. The motto is: If they push, we need to push back.

(Similar to what happened in EY with the frum chayalim...)

Maya

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:00 pm

amother wrote:

We did this when my son was 8, but it wasn’t only for the better education.

Regarding the child’s emotional health, he’s doing really well, better than before, and has successfully integrated into the new community and lifestyle. But we put in lots of effort to ensure a smooth transition.

I don’t remember if you mentioned the ages of your kids, but if done right, it can be worked out at almost any age.

Ravenclaw

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:02 pm

amother wrote:

Just for the record I think that he has an MSW now. Almost sure. So I would assume he has his GED.

Maya

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:04 pm

amother wrote:

Naftali Moster has a Master’s in Social Work from Hunter College.

According to the article, he worked in a warehouse full time while getting his undergraduate degree.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....ence/

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:06 pm

crust wrote:

Yes. You can help me.

You mentioned that there are plenty successfull businessmen.
Did you mean plenty of successfull businessmen that don't know English?

If this is what you meant, can you please give me an exact count of the successfull businessmen that dont have a good English that you know?

Yes there are plenty of successful businessmen that they dont or didnt have a good English.
Come to my chasidish community, or read our chasidish community listing and I will
identify each one's occupation and you will GASP that they bring home a living wage!!
They attended the Moser's elementary school. Moser's siblings with eight or more children are earning a bigger wage than he does.
Chasidish communities in itself has an economy of it's own which by default creates businesses and services unique to our lifestyle. Hence you have business opportunities that are unique to our culture. Everything we wear, the kids play with, the transportation we use, the cars we lease, the kitchens we build, the seforim we buy, the tallisim we wear, the kippas we wear, the exploding Yiddish magazine racks, the food we eat, the shmura matzos we bake,
the workbooks created for our school systems, the sheitels/shpitzels/turbans/snoods,skirts, house shirts we wear, socks, pantyhose, the menoras we use, the havdala lecht, the shabbos candles, the 100's of yiddish toys and gimmicks and games, the badchan, the singers, the music, the caterers, the jewish contractors, the hundreds of people who arrange building dept permits, the insurance brokers, the aron hakodesh builders, the kashrus organization (trust me it is big business), the kallah gown places, the sister of the bride places. I could go on and on and on. We people have business opportunity my average Chinese neighbor does not have. I forgot to mention the production of mens chasidish clothing which probably feeds thousands of families.

tweek

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:09 pm

amother wrote:

This may be a good point, but trust me, anyone involved in these businesses needs a basic level, functional command of English and math to accomplish these things.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:13 pm

asmileaday wrote:

Very well said. Thank you.

I walked into a plain frum wedding.

Most of the women wore painfully high heels.

Some of them had a painfully hard time walking with their tight skirts.

The women decidedly all looked alike.

The coat room seemed to be almost a uniform of fur coats.

They are not part of a chasidus. How does it happen that a group of 300 woman seem to

dress the same part?

A number of people asked me how does it happen that my niece just married a younger boy and they hear it is very common among our chasidus.
Moral of the story:

Dont nitpick on chasidim. Because in some ways you exhibit the same herd mentality.

amother

Puce

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:19 pm

amother wrote:

There's a difference between normal societal behavior, and the ones forced upon you with no recourse.

I doubt if any one of these women decided to dress differently, her kids would be threatened to be kicked out of school.

tweek

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:25 pm

amother wrote:

Are the businesses in Kiryas Joel, Williamsburg, BoroPark run by non chasidim?

Nope. If you will listen to their stories you will see that many had to learn the basics the hard way. Or you hear stories of wives doing the basics of math and reading for them. Or they had to hire people to do many of the things they could have simply done themselves. I give them tremendous respect for succeeding despite their handicaps, but there is no question that they started off handicapped and defending that makes no sense.
It is naive to say that once you have to deal with China, international trade laws, business and accounting on a larger scale, that educational basics aren't necessary. I am not talking about even college level education. There is no question that to run any of those businesses, one needs to know basic math, reading comprehension, and writing. I am tired of those who point to the few illiterate millionaires who hired enough people to overcome their deficits. They still had deficits and could have been better off if they hadn't.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:28 pm

Acclaimed educator Rabbi Yakov Bender of Darchei Torah just slammed the NY Times for their anti yeshiva article in relation to the new NYS Education Policy which affects excellent institutions such as his and Manhattan Girls High school. Both consistently ranked high by objective standards and far above public school ratings.
The lead of the NY Times article was ridiculing our not teaching certain subjects in frum schools.
A harbinger of what may lie ahead CVS.
An attack on the entire yeshiva school system as subpar.
I don't care what the NY Times write. I do care about government overreach even with the best of intentions and negative consequences even if supposedly "inspired" with a look to those who want to reform their own schools.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:31 pm

Trust me, I do not want to feel negatively about Satmar or any other "flavor" of Yiddishkeit.

I like to believe that there are multiple valid ways of serving Hashem, and Hashem does not want us all to fit inside of one box.

I like to believe that different groups excel in different areas, and we all have what to learn from each other.

But when I hear that fellow Jews feel TRAPPED in their particular brand of Yiddishkeit, and not just because of their habits, but because an officially sanctioned group will "make their lives into Gehennom" for daring to be different... that I really can't condone.

I will be very happy to hear that this is not the case, that Satmar women are proud to be part of their Chassidus, that they feel that they have adequate choice within the framework of their community, that they are not afraid of their leaders. Really.

Satmar has many great things to offer, and I really want to be able to admire that wholeheartedly. But when people tell me that they are virtually imprisoned by their community leadership, that makes me very sad.