My precious child is being picked on

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)

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groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 8:49 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

OP you say "I just really get the feeling that he is not equipped to deal with kids who are not the typical stereotype, "

No, he's not.

He never represented himself as skilled in that field. Teaching children with special needs is a field and a degree in itself.

OP was answering what a P3 support person is. I asked. It's one of the people in the rebbe's classroom.

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 8:52 pm

OP, I don't care what your child's behavior is. I don't care if every other parent thinks this guy walks on water.

NO TEACHER HAS THE RIGHT TO PICK ON YOUR CHILD. No teacher has the right to make your child feel bad about himself. And anyone who does that to a child should not be allowed to teach children.

This is not about a teaching style that doesn't suit your child. He's going to encounter that. Nor is this about your child being overstimulated, or unable to sit still for long periods. Those things can and should be addressed by the teacher.

Addressing those issues, however, doesn't include picking on a child, or making him feel bad about himself. You've heard this from professionals. Don't let it go on.

Full disclosure. My DS1's kindergarten teacher thought he was stupid, picked on him, made him feel stupid. He started kindergarten knowing how to read, and she convinced him that he didn't. And I was an idiot. I didn't think I had a choice. And I've had to spend all these years convincing him that she was wrong.

Get him out of there. Please. Do it for my DS1. Do it for yours.

Anonymous to protect my child.

Kugglegirl

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 9:32 pm

Makes me so annoyed to hear this. I hate seeing those classrooms with a bunch of para's sitting next to kids & keeping them "on task." This rebbe does not sound like the kind of teacher who knows what to do with all that support in his classroom.

My observation of many of these kind of situations is that the paras are often not very well trained, though some have great relationships with the kid they work with. But they end up isolating the kid from the other kids.

& just reinforcing a kind of rote restrictiveness on the child.

seeker

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:16 pm

Am I the only one who would advocate trying to get into the other class before considering a shadow? My personal opinion on these things in general is to go for the simplest path with the least change to the kid's academic program (unless there's good reason to warrant it, which doesn't seem to be the case here)

The parallel class is already there, unlike the shadow which would have to be either appealed to the DOE for (not easy to get) or paid out of pocket, and then hope that they're good. Then, according the the OP, the rebbe basically ignores the child, which is hardly a positive experience - though it's better than outright bullying, it's not what I would aim for as the ideal solution! And the label of being a "problem kid" who needed a crisis para is going to follow him for at least another year if not more, which just doesn't seem warranted at this stage based on OP's description of her child.

I also want to call attention to the Rebbe's expectation that the children will behave out of gratitude for the fun activities. We are talking about five-year-olds; that is patently ridiculous! Even through the teenage years this rarely happens, but to say about a five year old that if he acts out he's being ungrateful, is just so completely inappropriate.

Let the average, easy kids enjoy this rebbe's fun activities and shtick, and get your precious child out of his class. If he is still having trouble under a rebbe who has a more structured class (which is already a huge advantage for kids like your son) and works more cooperatively with your therapists, then you can consider further recommendations.

Bruria

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 12:46 am

It really sounds like this Rebbe is not equipped to deal with children! Never heard of a class with so much extra help!
Maybe he is getting old for this job and is tired, and in the past he had more patience?
You should try to switch classes, your son is brilliant, why would he need a shadow if without one he is doing great academically?
I always had in class someone who was smart and a little bit disruptive, and in the past teachers knew how to deal with them, because that is the job , right?
Anyway, I wish you good luck and that hope that all is well in the very near future!

imasinger

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 4:26 am

How many kids are in this class?

I have one suggestion that I haven't seen mentioned (maybe I overlooked it).

Before taking on additional expense of a shadow, see if you can get an objective observer with a lot of training in special ed and classroom management to come and watch the class and give you a report. Not someone currently involved, but someone that both you and the administration can respect. If possible, either you or this person should observe the other class, too, just to get a handle on the potential fit.

The report should contain both observations and recommendations.

I am sad that a rebbe with so much to offer seems to have expressed that he is above learning how to deal with kids with issues. When a teacher uses strategies like visuals, social skill teaching, etc. for the "difficult" kids, the whole class benefits, because those strategies can help neurotypical kids, too. I hope that there was a miscommunication.

Don't be too quick to assume that one kid was "flying under the radar" and only got "picked on" once he rebbe was done picking on the other troublemaker. Wait for an objective report from someone not currently involved.

STMommy

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 5:21 am

seeker wrote:

Seeker, can't like your post enough. No you're not the only one who says move the child. Let's think about which message OP's child is more likely to internalize in both scenarios:

Scenario one: a P3 provider added to the classroom to work with the child.
Child thinks, "There is something wrong with me. I need an extra adult on top of the numerous adults already in here to help me learn. I must be very bad and have lots of problems."

Scenario two: Moving the child to the other class.
Child thinks, "That other class was not the right fit for me. In this class I hope I'll be able to learn better".

I also think OP there is an easy solution to a concern you mentioned earlier that has not yet been addressed here, the feelings of the other Rebbe who will become your child's teacher. You can help him not feel 'dumped on' with the addition of your child mid-year by expressing to him, verbally and in person, your extreme gratitude for accepting your child into his class, how you feel that he is the right person to reach your child, how he is the one whom you feel has the personality and teaching style to be the perfect fit for your child, etc. You can easily smooth those ruffled feathers with a few sincere words.

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 6:03 am

amother wrote:

OP here. Your post brought me to tears. It's just so sad that teachers have this potential of damaging a child so greatly. I'm so sorry for you! From one mama bear to another.

Thanks everyone for your responses and concern, it empowers me to keep on advocating for my child and do what I feel and think is the best for him.

The behavioral therapist that I hired a little over a month ago is my objective go-to person. She doesn't answer to the school and is an independent contractor. She is advocating for my son greatly and guiding the staff who is working with him. She spent a long time on the phone with me last night discussing the benefits and risks of the options that we have. She maintains that the current Rebbe is not too organized and more focused on giving the general class a nice time, in addition he has pressure to finish the curriculum, especially of kriah, and it is a big focus for him. She can't give him advice on how to treat my child, as he is a "veteran" Rebbe and it would seem outlandish to him. It would imply that he is doing something wrong (which he is - haha). The Rebbe in the other class is more organized, but there are several issues in that class too. Firstly, he doesn't take in any outside help at all. He doesn't allow any paras and is inflexible about it. If my son switches to his class and ends up needing help, he may suffer from that rule. Secondly, this Rebbe has a time during the day where he does individual kriah with each child and the others are expected to sit quietly for a long time - like 45 minutes. That may not be a good fit for my son either.

The support staff have been telling me for a while that they think my son would benefit from a para over a P3 because academics are not really his issue. He is ahead of the average kids in kriah, he can even write some letters, he is on top of the Parsha and comprehends stories that are read to him beautifully. He is a deep child who thinks about things a lot and connects different concepts. A para would help keep him focused and supervise routine breaks for him outside the classroom so that he does not disrupt inside. My behavioral therapist would help obtain and train the para. It's sad that he would be under the Rebbe's radar, but unfortunately, that is the way this Rebbe is. He focuses on the class rather than on each child, and even when we met him at the parent teacher conference, we could tell that he didn't know our child well.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 7:59 am

"I also want to call attention to the Rebbe's expectation that the children will behave out of gratitude for the fun activities"

Seeker, the rebbe never said or implied that, ever. One of the child's therapists imagined that might be his thought process.

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 8:27 pm

OP here.

So after spending hundreds on a behavioral therapist (who is wonderful, but unaffordable) and working alongside whatever the Yeshivah told us to do, the Rebbe just called my husband and told him my son is not allowed back into the classroom. He's kicking him out. A 5 year old! While anyone else who works with my son realizes what a delicious child he is, who needs extra help in his own way. We are working on getting my son into a smaller school, but it will take another 2 weeks or so to complete the interview process. My husband begged and pleaded with the Rebbe to let him stay just until the arrangements are made for the other school, under the supervision of my mother-in-law, who is willing to come and be with him the entire time the Rebbe is there. The Rebbe wouldn't even agree to a one day trial! He told us that in 40 years of him teaching, he's never encountered a child like mine. Crying

I can't stop crying. I just can't. My sweet 5 year old child is starting to associate Torah learning with negativity, that he can't do what the others are doing in his class. And he's smart! Now he will have to sit home for 2 weeks because he's been kicked out. I honestly feel like going off the derech right now, that's how angry I am at the system. To see first hand how poorly the school has dealt with this situation makes me lose all my trust. I feel so alone. What will I tell my child tomorrow morning when he asks why his sister is getting on the bus but he can't. He'll see the other boys going... Crying

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 8:41 pm

That's so tough OP, sorry you are going thru this. As someone who works in special ed though, it might be time to get your child evaluated. With a diagnosis it will be easier to get state services. Maybe your son has sensory issues and needs OT? I hope everything works out!

Petra

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 9:06 pm

I can't for the life of me understand why that rabbi in his 40 years of teaching children can not realize how confusing it is to a little boy to prevent him from coming back to class. If he hasn't seen someone like your son, OP, then he isn't as experienced as he thinks. Sorry you are going through this. In the end, it will work out. sounds like it will be sooner than later which in reality is probably the best anyway. Hatzlacha.

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 9:11 pm

When my DS was 2 he was kicked out of playgroup for his behavior. He was home for about a month and then was able to go to an amazing program. Looking back I feel like it was the best thing for my DS. In the new place he thrived, came home with nachas notes...

I wish you best of luck and hope your DS gets into a wonderful school. I really hope you can say the same story in a few years.

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 9:13 pm

amother wrote:

He has services, he has a diagnosis, we are working with a number of professionals.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 9:58 pm

My DD got kicked out of 2nd grade, out of the blue. No warning or anything! She's in public school now, because no other school was willing to work with her learning issues. She's doing very well there, and has a huge support team to keep her on track, and they work one on one with her.

Yes, it breaks my heart every day that she's losing out on a Jewish education at school, but I just need to remind myself that she doesn't dread going to school anymore, and that she has nothing but positive thoughts about being Jewish and loving Torah.

It's a national shame that Jewish schools are throwing our kids out like trash, and basically feeding them to the wolves. Those teachers will have what to answer for in the World to Come! Mad

Happy18

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 4:08 am

Where is the principal in all if this? Why is throwing a child out of the school the classroom teachers job?????

piece

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 4:26 am

my heart aches for you! it is very painful to hear that the Rebbi doesn't want him back in class even after you are doing as they suggested; but you have to try & pull yourself together for your son's sake & ultimately yours. you are doing what is best for your son. he is getting the help he needs.
you have to tell him that you are working on finding him a school that will be better for him & that the Rebbi there wont be throwing him out of class & he'll be happier there.
this is a nisayon for you----try to be positive & daven that you should find the right place for your son.
there is a place out there for him who will see how delicious & adorable your precious 5 year old is!!!!!
much, much hatzlocha!!!!!

amother

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 9:22 am

Oh I am so so so sorry for all you're going through! its heartbreaking. You're not alone in your circumstances, if that's any help. We have also gone through our share of teachers & rebbeim who have been so hurtful in our son's schooling. its very very difficult. your feelings are very understandable and normal under the circumstances.

I hope its OK if I make a suggestion (that I wish someone would have said to me). View and utilize these two weeks as an amazing opportunity to build your son up and absolutely shower him with love. You know, no matter how many hours in school and however far reaching the schools try to be, we are still the parents and our messages are of paramount importance. this is a life lesson - yes even for a 5 yr old. You can explain to him that not always do our choices work out the first time, and that's Okay. that means, we don't give up - we try something else. then, highlight the positive - what a treat for us! two weeks that we can spend with each other. teach him to see the silver lining. also, show him how lucky he and you are that there are other adults that are working with you both to find the best way for him to learn. Tell him you know he is a wonderful kid who will find success. Then take him to a museum, indoor playground, whatever... Model healthy coping skills for him. Teach him how to view himself when things go awry. Let him see who he REALLY is in your eyes.

I know its soo hard, but these are things I wish I would have known. I wish I would have been stronger as a parent and more confident of what I am able to give in these kind of hard times. you are so justified in your anger and anguish and g-d knows what else. its so so painful. but don't lose sight of what an amazing parent and the life lessons you can give to him and your other kids at this time.

c899

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 9:25 am

Dear op I give you a Bracha that this should be the best thing that happens because you will find a much better suited school for your fear son.
I think I used to b a para in that rebbes class. He's been teaching for years, dresses up, dances with the kids etc. If you are in Brooklyn I'm pretty sure this is the same situation because the parallel Rebbe sounds just as you described as well... feel free to pm me I can make you feel better about your son switching Smile

amother

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 9:28 am

I would just like to say my husband got kicked out of school in sixth grade and he is only the wonderful person he is today because he went to a much smaller school after that, that was a much better place for him, where he became the star student! So don't despair, this is a hard time no doubt but work on finding the best type of school for this specific child and iyh it will all be for the best

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