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Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Vaccinations
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amother
Fuchsia
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 Fri, May 03 2019, 12:06 pm
| naomi2 wrote: | So not doing a proper scientific controlled trial is justified??
I'm sure there are enough people who choose not to vaccinate to use in the study. |
"proper" is not a word to be used for scientific studies.
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amother
Honeydew
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:10 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | There are valid reasons for questioning medical decisions, procedures, and pharmaceutical products, as well as anything marketed as natural, organic, or alternative medicine.
This, however, affects public health and the anger at now having to protect infants from a disease that the public viewed as eradicated.
Basically your desire to contract measles threatens my desire to avoid it but I am the only one who will be blamed for lack of ahavas Yisroel.
And much of the distrust is due to search engine algorithm and cultural avoidance of anything institutionalized rather than actual scientific fact.
Any group can pay to get their agenda at the top of the search engine list and vaccine advocates have been lax about getting their info linked to common searches. |
No. As a matter of fact, all books and videos which may even indirectly raise any concern about vaccines have been removed from Amazon.
Any interviews, debates, discussions, documents etc. which may shed a sliver of light on the vaccine controversy in favor of antivaxxer have been removed from Facebook, Google and other online venues.
Any doctor who dares raise a question about vaccines based on research or personal experience with his clients is threatened to have his/her license revoked if s/he doesn't shut up.
All the pro-vaccine side is doing is chanting bumper sticker slogans like "vaccines are safe and effective." They are threatening, mocking, and harassing those who don't want to use an inferior product which has not been sufficiently tested. Those who ask for actual studies. Why are they so afraid of a debate? If they are so confident that their science is settled, what do they have to lose by clarifying the 'misconceptions and misinformation' which people are hearing and actually make more sense to them than a bumper sticker saying "proud to vaccinate."
I wish the pharmaceutical would prove us wrong. It is very difficult to be a minority who is treated as trash for the sin of not wanting to use a product which they have decided to manufacture. it is easier to follow the crowd, and not be singled out. I tried hard to prove myself wrong by reading ,with a very open mind, all the literature the pro-vaccine side put out and they failed dismally.
So you're right about the fact that they are not trying hard to link their info to common searches because they are to busy removing alternative information from common searches. I have a hard time trusting institutions who resort to such shameless tactics instead of respectfully debating and proving themselves right.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:12 pm
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | No. As a matter of fact, all books and videos which may even indirectly raise any concern about vaccines have been removed from Amazon.
Any interviews, debates, discussions, documents etc. which may shed a sliver of light on the vaccine controversy in favor of antivaxxer have been removed from Facebook, Google and other online venues.
Any doctor who dares raise a question about vaccines based on research or personal experience with his clients is threatened to have his/her license revoked if s/he doesn't shut up.
All the pro-vaccine side is doing is chanting bumper sticker slogans like "vaccines are safe and effective." They are threatening, mocking, and harassing those who don't want to use an inferior product which has not been sufficiently tested. Those who ask for actual studies. Why are they so afraid of a debate? If they are so confident that their science is settled, what do they have to lose by clarifying the 'misconceptions and misinformation' which people are hearing and actually make more sense to them than a bumper sticker saying "proud to vaccinate."
I wish the pharmaceutical would prove us wrong. It is very difficult to be a minority who is treated as trash for the sin of not wanting to use a product which they have decided to manufacture. it is easier to follow the crowd, and not be singled out. I tried hard to prove myself wrong by reading ,with a very open mind, all the literature the pro-vaccine side put out and they failed dismally.
So you're right about the fact that they are not trying hard to link their info to common searches because they are to busy removing alternative information from common searches. I have a hard time trusting institutions who resort to such shameless tactics instead of respectfully debating and proving themselves right. |
What is it about vaccination that you are concerned about?
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amother
Royalblue
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:13 pm
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Thanks to people who believe this bunk, I had to get an MMR booster this week. Who wants to pay my doctor's bill?
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amother
Cyan
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:16 pm
Most people who are anti vax are bored and are always looking for information to scare people. Except in their minds they believe that they are “educating” people when they come upon some outdated information.
It’s sad that most of these people don’t have regular jobs and busy themselves with this. It’s already been proven that most of these people have some sort of emotional instability.
Doesn’t pay to argue. Just nod your head and move on...
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amother
Maroon
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:19 pm
| amother [ Turquoise ] wrote: | [/b]
Hold off on your hysterical rant. The poster you are addressing actually wrote that her doctor agreed with her to hold off on subsequent vaccines for this particular child. I know you're mad, but again, stick to the point we are discussing. |
Wow. Talk about putting a spin on things. Or maybe your vocabulary is poor. Where do I come off as "mad"? How is my post a "hysterical rant"? Her doctor may have agreed with her to hold off on vaccines for a short while (until he is two) because he didn't want to turn her off of vaccines altogether by stating that there is no proof that vaccines have anything to do with what happened to her child.
Like I've said before on this forum, we are all going to have to give a din v'cheshbon. Glad I'm not you.
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amother
Maroon
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:21 pm
| amother [ Turquoise ] wrote: | [/b]
Hold off on your hysterical rant. The poster you are addressing actually wrote that her doctor agreed with her to hold off on subsequent vaccines for this particular child. I know you're mad, but again, stick to the point we are discussing. |
Also, if you had read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I began my second paragraph with "this is not directed at you."
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southernbubby
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:25 pm
If anti-vax info is so hard to find, then how is anyone getting it? It still circulates WhatsApp. If search engines don't want to feature anti-vax info, why can't such groups develop their own search engines? Are search engines such as Google obligated to provide a platform for each ideology? What about white supremacists? Are Facebook and Google obligated to provide them with a platform? Does freedom of speech mean that commercial search engines must provide that opportunity?
And from what I am reading, anti-vaxers have found ways to hide their info in articles about other forms of natural living or in articles against other medical intervention such as vitamin K shots for newborn babies.
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frumama
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:25 pm
| amother [ Turquoise ] wrote: | | Continue reading please. |
ive gone through the first 20 pages, its erev shabnos and I have plenty if better things to do with my time, what ami looking for that contradicts what I said. I am open to hearing real facts that show mmr to be unsafe but so far, nothing to connvince me. seriously, wheres the part that shows they are studying something else
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amother
Honeydew
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:27 pm
| amother [ Cyan ] wrote: | Most people who are anti vax are bored and are always looking for information to scare people. Except in their minds they believe that they are “educating” people when they come upon some outdated information.
It’s sad that most of these people don’t have regular jobs and busy themselves with this. It’s already been proven that most of these people have some sort of emotional instability.
Doesn’t pay to argue. Just nod your head and move on... |
Are you kidding?? This is the most ridiculous, immature and stereotypical post. If this post is an indication of who the vaxxers are then I will stop engaging now. But because I despise stereotyping I'll keep in mind that there are many very intelligent, educated people there who are actually worth talking to and even debating with.
And I'll take your advice on how to deal with people like you. Just nod your head and move on. Great advice. Thank you.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:31 pm
| crust wrote: | Why don't they provide links to documents from where they draw their conclusions?
Who's PRwire? What's their agenda?
How come this article is only on Yahoo? |
PRwire is a newswire service.
The article was authored by "Informed Consent Action Network". Its basically an article about themselves.
(and I'm not sure what their 'legal win' was).
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SixOfWands
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:33 pm
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | No. As a matter of fact, all books and videos which may even indirectly raise any concern about vaccines have been removed from Amazon.
Any interviews, debates, discussions, documents etc. which may shed a sliver of light on the vaccine controversy in favor of antivaxxer have been removed from Facebook, Google and other online venues.
Any doctor who dares raise a question about vaccines based on research or personal experience with his clients is threatened to have his/her license revoked if s/he doesn't shut up.
All the pro-vaccine side is doing is chanting bumper sticker slogans like "vaccines are safe and effective." They are threatening, mocking, and harassing those who don't want to use an inferior product which has not been sufficiently tested. Those who ask for actual studies. Why are they so afraid of a debate? If they are so confident that their science is settled, what do they have to lose by clarifying the 'misconceptions and misinformation' which people are hearing and actually make more sense to them than a bumper sticker saying "proud to vaccinate."
I wish the pharmaceutical would prove us wrong. It is very difficult to be a minority who is treated as trash for the sin of not wanting to use a product which they have decided to manufacture. it is easier to follow the crowd, and not be singled out. I tried hard to prove myself wrong by reading ,with a very open mind, all the literature the pro-vaccine side put out and they failed dismally.
So you're right about the fact that they are not trying hard to link their info to common searches because they are to busy removing alternative information from common searches. I have a hard time trusting institutions who resort to such shameless tactics instead of respectfully debating and proving themselves right. |
Not a single thing that you say is true, of course.
Just search for anti-vaccine books on Amazon, and you get a plethora of results.
Its easy enough to find anti-vaccine video everywhere. People like you post them here every day.
Most doctors are pro-vaccine. Because, you know, science. But those who aren't don't lose their licenses.
Those who favor vaccines have science and over half a century of research on their side. All you have is a bunch of conspiracy theories and falsified studies.
You want to debate? Start with a study demonstrating why people who are vaccinated with MMR show in 97% of cases if its not efficacious, while measles was highly communicable (ie, people were not immune without vaccination).
Next, each year in the US, 10 million doses of MMR are distributed. That's since 1971, so conservatively, 480 million doses in the US alone. Surely, with nearly 250 million subjects (assuming that each person received 2 doses), scientists have been able to demonstrate widespread problems with MMR. Let's say in more than 25% of patients. And by what mechanism they work. Peer reviewed studies, of course. Preferably not falsified.
That's a start.
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flowerpower
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:33 pm
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So far every “article of proof” the anti vaxxers brought to the table is older than me. I want recent studies from you guys! Let’s go!!!
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saw50st8
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:36 pm
| amother [ Royalblue ] wrote: | | Thanks to people who believe this bunk, I had to get an MMR booster this week. Who wants to pay my doctor's bill? |
I don't understand this. If you received your initial shot and are still not immune, you are in the same position as someone who is not vaccinated.
If you were walking around without having checked your immunity, aren't you part of the problem too? You could easily have spread the measles!
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SixOfWands
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:36 pm
| amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote: | PRwire is a newswire service.
The article was authored by "Informed Consent Action Network". Its basically an article about themselves. |
No, its not a news service
Its a site that allows people to publish their own public relations releases.
Six of Wands Makes Brilliant Argument on Imamother! See PR Newswire.
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amother
Maroon
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:38 pm
| out-of-towner wrote: | | Sorry OP, but your use of the words "Big Pharma" got me to stop reading. |
Actually, Big Pharma isn't to blame. It's all the handi-work of little green men who want to take over the planet, but first, they have to render us incapable of fighting back.
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southernbubby
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:39 pm
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | Are you kidding?? This is the most ridiculous, immature and stereotypical post. If this post is an indication of who the vaxxers are then I will stop engaging now. But because I despise stereotyping I'll keep in mind that there are many very intelligent, educated people there who are actually worth talking to and even debating with.
And I'll take your advice on how to deal with people like you. Just nod your head and move on. Great advice. Thank you. |
I would have to agree that calling all anti-vaxers bored and unemployed shuts down discussion but the MMR vaccine is a matter of public health and the right of the public to safeguard the vulnerable against a mostly preventable virus that isn't totally innocuous. Why does Amazon have to antagonize that public by selling alternative information?
Does Amazon also have to provide info on how to build bombs or misinformation about groups such as Jews?
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amother
Azure
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:40 pm
Y 
Is anyone cooking for shabboss here? 
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amother
Maroon
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:41 pm
| saw50st8 wrote: | I don't understand this. If you received your initial shot and are still not immune, you are in the same position as someone who is not vaccinated.
If you were walking around without having checked your immunity, aren't you part of the problem too? You could easily have spread the measles! |
What a ridiculous response. She was doing her part to protect herself and society. Anti-vaxxers hurt society.
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amother
Brown
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Fri, May 03 2019, 12:42 pm
| flowerpower wrote: | | So far every “article of proof” the anti vaxxers brought to the table is older than me. I want recent studies from you guys! Let’s go!!! |
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....7155/
My personal opinion is that combined with environmental factors, vaccines prevent serious diseases but contribute towards autoimmune diseases as they overstimulate the immune system. That is how vaccines are designed to work, but the long term results may show they contribute to the increase in autoimmune issues.
I think vaccines are effective and mostly safe. My entire family is fully vaccinated on schedule.
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