Mitzvah tantz | Imamother

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Mitzvah tantz

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amother

Wheat

Fri, May 25 2018, 11:23 am

chocolatecake wrote:

If you would never do it any other day again, why is it okay at the wedding?

I don't know the source of the minhag, but I sure enjoyed it! I see it as similar to the British Royals very public balcony kiss on their wedding day. They would never kiss publicly at any other time either.

amother

Slateblue

Sat, May 26 2018, 10:08 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Because they're married and she's tahor.

except that these people wouldn't hold hands publicly at any other time because it's considered not tzanua. Furthermore, if it's a chuppas niddah, THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT. Can anything be less tzanua and more embarrassing for the poor kallah?

amother

Ginger

Sat, May 26 2018, 10:37 pm

amother wrote:

The women get no part of this, they get to sit in the sidelines for 2+ hours, watching the men taking over the scene. Secondly, it causes the weddings to end at an ungodly hour, affecting the functioning of all attendees for the next day or two.

Additionally, all this continuous praise lavished on all male attendees is often cringe-worthy. What happened to humility and humbleness? The focus and attention should be about the newly minted couple and not about extolling the virtues of everyone present.

amother, I'm not sure how many mitzvah tantzes you've been to, but let me put this in a new light for you:

1. The mitzvah tantz is about the chasson and kallah, not the men who are dancing. I'm a BT and I was "adopted" by a very special chasidishe family. At my mitzvah tantz, I felt so loved, so cared for that all these people -- my "adopted" brothers, uncles, father -- were coming to dance in front of me to gladden my heart on the day of our wedding. It was the most emotional experience of my life, especially during Aishes Chayil, the song traditionally played when the chasson and kallah "dance." I couldn't stop crying. There is something so special about that moment. I didn't even have tears by the chuppah!

2. The way a mitzvah tantz is set up is quite beautiful. If you pay attention, you pick up on the fact that is is an emotional, non-verbal way to welcome the chasson into the family. He dances with each new family member seperately, and then collectively, being drawn into a circle of warmth and love. And when I go to a mitzvah tantz and see my husband called up, it feels my heart with pride. He is a representative of my entire family; I have no need to get up there and dance in front of everyone and I love watching him from the side. And btw, the chasson and kallah sit next to the mothers, who see the dance right in front of them.
Isn't that the biggest kavod? To have front row seats to this dance of unity? (and also, the women are served cakes and fruit and tea and coffee... It is a way to refresh after a long night of dancing.)

3. When we speak of others we do not -- should not! -- be "humble" for their sake. Humility is a trait that each person needs to work on alone. When we speak of others, especially in a public setting, it should be of their good points only.

amother

Ginger

Sat, May 26 2018, 10:41 pm

Oh, and I do agree that the mitzvah tantzes go on way too long. But I wouldn't dare called them "ung-dly" because when done correctly, the most certainly are!

amother

Ginger

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:08 am

I find it ironic that the same people who usually say that chasidim treat women unfairly and have unreal, zealous expectations of tznuis requirements are the same ones who claim that the mitzvah tantz -- a chasidishe minhag -- is untznuisdig...

Can't win either way, I guess.

amother

Ginger

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:16 am

chocolatecake wrote:

The one thing that I don't understand about the mitzva tanz is why is it okay for the chosson and kallah to hold hands in public...

I lived with a very chasidishe, super special family, and after my weddings I was showing the kids pictures that I'd picked up. Before I showed them, I asked the mother if I should let them see the ones where I was holding my husband's hand. She said that is fine, because although she doesn't teach her children until they about to be married about relations between husband and wife, the children do know that a chuppah creates a new familial bond, and just like a brother and sister may hold hands, etc., so can a husband and wife.

To top it off, she said there is actually a minhag that the chasson takes his bride's hand and they walk to the yichud room holding hands. Why? I dunno, but it's a minhag!

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:17 am

amother wrote:

I do find it odd that mixed dancing in front of a crowd is holy while driving is immodest. But as long as you don't insist that we have mixed dancing at our weddings, I'm not going to insist that you be allowed to drive.

amother

Magenta

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:22 am

I don’t feel a spiritual awakening by a mitzvah tantz, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t tell me anything other other than the (already known) fact that I don’t speak Yiddish very well.

amother

Ginger

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:27 am

amother wrote:

I'm definately not insisting that you have a mitzvah tantz if it is not your minhag, and I don't think that anybody on this thread implied that you need to adopt it.

ON a different note:

I've been to several yeshivish (flatbush type) weddings where the kallah was sent into the men's side to have her brothers dance around her. Personally, I found that to be very inappropriate, especially because the dancing was wild and the kallah clapped and laughed with her brothers while all the men watched... At a mitzvah tantz (one done correctly), the chasson and kallah are both in a very intense, focused mood, using the time to daven. There is no levity, though there may be chuckles when the badchan makes a good joke...

amother

Rose

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:30 am

the Sefer Nitei Gavriel goes into
Mitzvah Tantz at length and it’s sources.

It is mystical in many ways.

There are many diff forms of Mitzvah Tantz

In our chassidus we actually don’t have grammen. It is a quick and emotional affair.

Between each person who is called up, there is a different beautiful Niggun sung and played . These niggunim evoke feelings of Teshuva and yearning.

Then they call up the individual in a couple of sentences using a special
Nussach.

I find it a real Eis Ratzon.

DrMom

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:39 am

It doesn't look that fun for the bride. As a person who likes to be active, my personal reaction, whenever I see a video of a mitzvah tantz, is:

I'd rather be on my side of the mechitzah dancing with my female friends and relatives than standing there in a room full of men essentially watching my older male relatives shuffle around while I hold a rope.

naturalmom5

Sun, May 27 2018, 12:47 am

I find it very interesting that the posters that are most positive ( not apologetic) in this thread are BTs and gerim

amother

Rose

Sun, May 27 2018, 1:34 am

I’m from a Chasidishe Family and not BT/ger been doing
This for a while and I have only positive

amother

White

Sun, May 27 2018, 2:46 am

amother wrote:

I’m from a Chasidishe Family and not BT/ger been doing
This for a while and I have only positive

Likewise

amother

Mint

Sun, May 27 2018, 3:03 am

The idea of holding hands is supposed to be public. It’s considered part of the kinyan of the chuppa, not a leniency.

amother

Lemon

Sun, May 27 2018, 3:47 am

amother wrote:

The first mitzvah tanz I ever saw was my own. It was over 35 years ago. It was not my family's minhag and I had never seen one, and there was no Youtube to educate me. I really did not want to do it. On one hand I wish I had had some kind of education of the meaning behind it and its significance. (Apparently it is very meaningful for some.) But I didn't and I have to say as a 19 year old bride it was terrible. As I said I had never seen one. None of my relatives or friends had had one. I was never so uncomfortable or embarrassed in my life. I hated every minute of it and for many years felt terrible resentment for the people involved (my DH and his father for pushing it through and my parents for sitting back and saying yes to whatever was forced on them). The irony is that this is a pattern that continued for many years and had led to a lot of resentment. BH I have worked on myself over this time and have managed to let go of it. But that Mitzvah Tanz was in a sense symbolic, of me just standing there and the beginning of many years of pain and not being heard.

]

if this was the minhag in your husband's family, then why would you have resentment. You have to accept your husband with the package deal that it entails and minhagim is one of them. I can understand that the acutual mitzva tantz, being all foreign to you, would have been very uncomfortable and unpleasant to say the least, but what don't we do for marriage??

amother

Lemon

Sun, May 27 2018, 4:02 am

amother wrote:

The times when the Mitzva tanz are unfortunately not tzenuis is at "bummy" weddings where the chosson/kalla hug & dance. It's a new trend in the OTD chassidish world. It's so disgusting.

Yes and it is utterly sickening how these "bummy" couples make a mockery out of the holy mitzvah tantz and use it as an opportunity for a romantic engagement and public display of affection.

amother

Gray

Sun, May 27 2018, 4:22 am

In my circles (MO/DL) there is absolutely no such thing like the chassidic mitzvah tantz.
So I'm looking at it as a total outsider.
But the idea of it being not tzanua of all things, makes my chin drop.
The few clips of such dances that I've seen didn't show anything un-tzniusdig to me.
I mean, the kallah is wrapped up in a massive, thick , cover-everything white wedding gown with a veil. It's impossible to see the shape of her body or her face. I don't want to be mean, but she looks like a huge white triangle, kind of a floating iceberg.
Even if you have a few hundred men watching her, they can't really see her.
She doesn't touch anyone directly. So what's not tzanua in that?
Btw, the wedding guests also see her in the same outfit when she's standing under the chuppah, right?
What would you suggest? Holding weddings without the kallah being present at all? Would that be sufficiently tzanua?

edited to delete part of what I wrote

DrMom

Sun, May 27 2018, 5:34 am

amother wrote:

Yes and it is utterly sickening how these "bummy" couples make a mockery out of the holy mitzvah tantz and use it as an opportunity for a romantic engagement and public display of affection.

What does "bummy" mean in this context?

moonstone

Sun, May 27 2018, 5:53 am

amother wrote:

I've posted before that the way things are going, this is going to be the norm someday.

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