Is she obligated to pay? Waiting for Rav reply

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 7:46 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

You are ppaid to be there, not go somewhere else

You dont know the reason that child is insecure around new people
Either do your job properly and professionally or refund that mother for the time you are away TMI

Just curious, do you say the same thing if your child’s teacher has to take off? Teachers are given x number of days off (sick, personal, etc.) When a teacher is out, so you ask the school if they are paying the teacher for the time off?

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 7:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So some on this thread seem to think that if I'm sick, pay a sub, one kid cries and gets sent home early, they shouldn't pay me? But I'm paying the sub so I should lose even more money?! It really doesn't make much sense.
I'll see what the Rav says. Either way the mother seems to have regretted texting me in the first place.

I’m very curious to hear what he says, can you please come back and update us?

chocpretzel

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 8:10 pm

If the agreement is that she pays for childcare, she must pay for childcare as long as “you” (collectively whether you yourself or your assistant) are providing the service she paying for. If you cannot provide the service and have the mother pick up the child, it is unfair to make her pay. The same way if you hire someone to do work for you but the circumstances didn’t allow it to happen, you would expect to not have to pay or at least get a discount.

amother

Viola

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 9:47 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

This is such a bizarre comment.
Have you never heard of a teacher taking off & sending a sub? It is very professional to take off and send a sub.

amother

Firethorn

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 11:23 pm

Op is definitely entitled to take a short 3 day vacation. She didn’t just abandon the kids she made alternate arrangements and her assistant was there who is a familiar face. Seems like the assistant called the mom that the kid is crying as in is he feeling well today, can he nap etc… and mom offered to pick him up early since she felt bad and decided it must be because the Morah is out. There are a lot of assumptions here.
Op is definitely entitled to get paid since the playgroup is running smoothly and she paid out of pocket (as she should) for a sub. You’re actually way better than most in charging weekly and not charging for midwinter and Yom Tov etc. In Brooklyn we pay for the full month regardless how many days there are.

Side point: last year schools and playgroups finished on June 15 smack in middle of the month. I sent to a playgroup and only paid half taking a gamble since it is my first child and it only made sense. I got a phone call a couple of weeks later that she was going over the payments and realized I paid half. I was perfectly ready to send the other half but she started yelling at me that Halacha says this and that and her husband is a dayan and I must pay the whole thing Halacha Halacha Halacha (I tried asking for her address to send payment in middle but she was too busy ranting lol) Yelling Halacha definitely ticked me off so I said fine let’s ask a shaila. We got a choshen mishpot dayan (not all dayanim are fluent in the laws regarding money) and my husband and her husband and her spoke to the dayan and we ended up winning cuz her original contract said all payments have to be in full UNTIL June even if it’s a partial month (ie Yom Tov) since it said until we won. But our dayan said we can pay the other half from Maaser if we wanted which we did.

amother

Steelblue

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 11:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We're not talking about that now on this thread. It's about if this particular mother should pay now or not.

And the point is that there is still a program!! So yes, the parents need to pay.

It IS the point. Mom agreed to X. You gave her Y. Y is not working for her kid. Should she still have to pay for the next few days for something she didnt agree to and wont be able to use?

amother

Steelblue

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 11:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1. You werent sick. This wasnt an "act of God". If you were sick, had a bee infestation so closed a day to get it removed, or were temporarily abducted by aliens- it would be a whole different story.
2. You had a planned vacation you didnt inform them about so they could prep their kid. A kid you knew was sensitive but had finally adjusted.
3. Mom didnt agree to this but tried to make it work.
4. Why was kid sent home for crying? How long? How inconsolable?
5. Kid isnt able to come back unless mom is available the entire day to pick up the kid.
6. Losing money was your choice. Again- you decided to go on vacation now. You made these choices. You had to have a sub because you were down 1 staff member (you) and it wouldnt be safe. And you said your assistant needed help.

So she cant use your program and still has to pay?

And a shaila is good but only if the FULL story is told. Not just "what we are discussing here"

amother

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 1:35 am

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

I didn’t read through the whole thread carefully, so I apologize if you already addressed this. Is this the same mother who you originally offered to not send and not pay? If it’s that mother, and you previously offered that she wouldn’t need to pay, to me that might change things.

No a different one.

amother

Amaryllis

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 1:47 am

The only point that I think is important is that the Mom was called to pick up the child. That makes all the difference. Now the Mom figures she may be called mid-day to pick up again so must make alternative arrangements.
Of course she doesn't have to pay.
However, if the assistant and/or temp staff let the child come as usual and attempted to calm the child down then of course she should pay.
I agree that OP can take a few days vacation and that is understood when sending a child to daycare. For any reason at all as long as it is not frequent.
Transitioning the kids would have been nice but not a must.

amother

Bottlebrush

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 4:53 am

amother [ Currant ] wrote:

Its not the same thing. The teacher isn't there which is why the child can't handle coming.

So if the teacher is out sick but hires a sub, parents don't have to pay? That's ridiculous.

Of course the parent has to pay. The playgroup is running on schedule, there is a substitute after the first hour of the day, there is a familiar face throughout the day.

If one child has an issue that's the child's issue. Not the teacher's.

amother

Bottlebrush

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 4:56 am

amother [ Currant ] wrote:

If the assistant couldn't handle the child and needed to call mom to pick up then why does mom need to pay?

Who says the assistant couldn't handle it? If the child is miserable, mom shouldn't be told? The child should stay miserable?

Mom should pay because it is her child with the issue, not the playgroup with the issue.

amother

Bottlebrush

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 5:01 am

amother [ Amaryllis ] wrote:

So if a child doesn't feel well and mom has to pick up early, she shouldn't have to pay for that day? And how do we even know this is because of the assistant and not just a child feeling under the weather?

amother

Bottlebrush

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 5:11 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

What is unprofessional about a teacher missing three days during the course of a school year, and ensuring that there is a professional substitute?

Iymnok

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 5:17 am

Did you talk to your assistants?
I suggest that you deal with everything when you come back.
Next time try to think about all possible eventualities and decide your stance beforehand.
Morahs sometimes have to leave. That’s okay. As long as the kids are in a familiar environment with capable caregivers.
If the second assistant is not that great with small children, then I’d be upset. But if you found a fully competent morah, there’s no reason for the payment to change. Babies don’t like change, and you’ve done the best you could.

During corona our morahs asked a rav how payment should work. They gave the name of the rav and we could go talk to him if we wanted.

amother

Amaryllis

Tue, Jun 14 2022, 6:04 am

amother [ Bottlebrush ] wrote:

I didn't think this needed to be said:
If a child goes home early because they are sick, they don't get reimbursed for the hours missed.

But being asked to come pick up your child because they are crying... and they are told they will be asked to pick up the child over the next few days if they keep crying... no they don't have to pay. If the teachers handle the child themselves, even crying, then yes you pay.
And what happens if the teacher returns and also was to ask the mom to pick up since the child is crying. They will find another daycare. They shouldn't be obligated to finish paying the month. Or the year.