Spoiled Americans | Imamother

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:03 am

As the American child of a European parent, with lots of European cousins, it's all semantics to me.
I mean, sure, our houses are built bigger and our properties larger....but they go on 10X the amount of "holidays" we do.
I think it's all cultural and priorities are different.
And my relatives have had walk-in closets and air-conditioning for 30 years at least....

notshanarishona

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:04 am

Of course people going to camp are going to be the ones who have money and crazy high standards. Most of the “unspoiled “ Americans wouldn’t dream of spending $3000 a month for entertainment for a child who is old enough to be earning some money or not needing to be entertained all day.
Despite what the camps want you to believe, camp is not a necessity for anyone , except maybe the kids who don’t have a functional home to live in in which case they need a more permanent solution than 4 -8 weeks anyway.

giftedmom

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:10 am

amother Begonia wrote:

This is true.
Even among the wealthy in London, hardly any have huge houses and grounds like is the norm in the frum communites in the US. A pool? Unheard of. There's no space for that.

(Yes I know in NY many live in tiny apartments, but no one here has houses the size that people have in Lakewood etc. Just doesn't exist. Aside from the few streets of mansions, but those are for the SUPER wealthy.)

Uh why on earth are you comparing London to Lakewood?
London is like Brooklyn. Anyone in Brooklyn with a pool? Lakewood is like canvey. And I’m sure many have huge houses there.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:11 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Honestly, it's all relative
When I read here, it seems that the majority of British Imamothers, if they work, work in kids schools, offering them the luxury of their kids schedules.

You have the option of working in schools as well Smile

I wouldn't count this as a luxury at all. This is actually a HUGE disadvantage in the UK that because there are no frum colleges or the like, hardly anyone one gets degrees, so everyone only works at 'frum' jobs for very low pay.

This is actually a reason why I always tell DH that I wish we lived in the US.

While I think the level of materialism here is much lower, and that's a good thing, people in our communities are earning very low wages and many are struggling with affording day-to-day life. It's a big issue.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:14 am

giftedmom wrote:

Uh why on earth are you comparing London to Lakewood?
London is like Brooklyn. Anyone in Brooklyn with a pool? Lakewood is like canvey. And I’m sure many have huge houses there.

Forget about London, was just using that as an example because another poster mentioned it. In no communites in England are people living on that level. London actually has bigger houses than other areas, in fact.

ETA: I've no idea about Canvey, but that's a small community.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:16 am

I'm not sure why people are getting so defensive? I think it's a bracha for people who can live a better lifestyle.

The person who called it spoiled (OP) lives this lifestyle.

Others aren't saying it's bad, just pointing out that she is right that in the US (obviously not everyone, but on the whole) people are living on a higher standard than in many other countries.

amother

Moonstone

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:20 am

amother Begonia wrote:

You have the option of working in schools as well Smile

If families are struggling day-to-day, then why don't more women work full time?
You don't need a degree. Lots of women in my community work more full time without a degree. Receptionist in a medical office, secretary, billing.
So many jobs available.
It seems like British women are spoiled that they won't work full time even when money is tight. (You see how that works. You say all the logic, I repeat Spoiled British women. That's essentially what you're doing labeling Americans as spoiled because of something on your metrix).

amother

Pink

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:21 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Honestly, it's all relative
When I read here, it seems that the majority of British Imamothers, if they work, work in kids schools, offering them the luxury of their kids schedules.
It seems like European families go on vacations regularly - both smaller sea vacations and out of the country.

South American and South African families have a tremendous amount of household help, due to the availability.

Israeli Imas pay significantly less for education and healthcare.
Many countries have basic food price caps and maternity leave and childcare assistance or child payments that leave Americans jealous.

I think the fact that it's standard for a European family to go on a 2 week vacation every year makes them spoiled.

See, it's just what you're used to.

You've got to compare like with like.
Paying less for education and healthcare doesn't raise the standard of living.
Even being on your kids schedule doesn't raise the standard of living.
It makes life way less stressful in some things but it doesn't mean that the gashmiyus is more.

I've lived in UK, Israel and USA. The standard of gashmiyus in the USA is higher. Across the board. It doesn't make Americans spoiled but it does mean that their "needs" are more.

I think Americans are also willing to work harder to keep up that level. In the UK most women would not work a high profile job if it takes her away from her children more hours even if it means she can have a higher standard of living. So they are working in schools because that is a priority for them. In the USA the salary is a higher priority than the kids schedule.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:22 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Also true. Plenty of frum families in America don't send their kids to overnight camp, or if they do it's 1-2 summers tops (and not the whole summer either, it's one half), and their kids earn at least part of the cost by previous summer jobs. But you'd never know that if what you know is based on what you read on imamother. Plenty of frum kids spend their summers working. But their moms aren't posting about it online because what is there to say about it?

giftedmom

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:22 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Because the communities you know are in cities. That’s why. No one in cities has mansions with pools. That’s just ridiculous.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:23 am

Where did I use the word spoiled?

OP is the one who used it and she lives in the US.

I find it very interesting that when anyone mentions something about people in the US, they get so defensive.

I pointed out some flaws in our communities here, I don't think life in the UK is better than the US at all.

flowerpower

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:25 am

I do think Americans are spoiled!! I agree with op. The needs keep going up and up.

Amazon is striving because gd forbid we go to a store. Order whatever you want from your bed and it comes to the door.

Hungry? Uber eats delivers ready food to your door( for an expensive price).

Kids don’t think twice about getting stuff. At every corner is an eatery. They are are doing well so it seems.

More and more kosher products come out every year to make our lives easier. I remember having to wrap 10 pieces of bread every erev Pesach. Those days are long over. The groceries sell peeled chopped ready veggies for soup and what not….

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:25 am

giftedmom wrote:

Because the communities you know are in cities. That’s why. No one in cities has mansions with pools. That’s just ridiculous.

I'm not only referring to the Jewish communites. And even those are not all in main cities at all.

It's a fact that houses and grounds overall are much smaller in England. I'm not sure why you're trying to fight that?

amother

Pink

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:25 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

It doesn't work like that. The medical billing industry is non existent in the UK because of socialized medicine. Receptionists in a medical office get paid less than working in a school.

It's not about "won't work full time". It's about not finding jobs to work in. If you've never lived there you can't understand it. There are very, very few options. Also, there are no childcare options for full time mothers like there are in Israel and the USA.

amother

Bluebonnet

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:26 am

amother Royalblue wrote:

We were visited by my MIL and she could not get over how much food they give you at restaurants.

Yes!

The portions are huge and they charge more two.

An eggplant Parmesean in the UK is 10 pounds and just enough for 2 and in NY it's enough for 4 and they charge $17.

giftedmom

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:27 am

amother Begonia wrote:

It’s really not a fact. You’re just apparently only familiar with cities in England. The fact that you’re comparing Lakewood to London demonstrates that.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:30 am

giftedmom wrote:

It’s really not a fact. You’re just apparently only familiar with cities in England. The fact that you’re comparing Lakewood to London demonstrates that.

I was comparing large Jewish communites. And I'm not only familiar with cities at all, I didn't grow up in one actually.

As I said, there are hardly any suburbs in England like that either. Definitely not for middle to low income families.

But think what you want. I'm not sure why you're so desparate to fight it.

There's nothing wrong with people having larger and nicer houses. It's just a fact.

giftedmom

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:31 am

Anyway the reason people are getting defensive is because the word spoiled has very negative connotations. It basically means entitled, self-centered, etc.
if someone came on here and said that many people in the US had nicer, bigger houses, and that there is a ton of kosher high-end food available etc. no one would argue with that.

amother

Pink

Mon, Jun 19 2023, 6:32 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Not all Americans go on vacations the way that "all" Europeans go on vacations.
That's my point.
We don't go on vacations. We can't afford to all take off at the same time (I have off Yom Tov, nothing else).
So summer the kids go to camp and then we muddle through.
Our European counterparts ALL go on a 2-3 week vacation every year.

I have 2 hours a week of cleaning help. My South African or South American counterpart has 2 full-time workers.

You have to compare like with like.
Yes, there are Americans going on luxurious vacations. Europeans also.
But the average European has luxuries (like child payments, vacations, etc) that the average American thinks are luxuries.

not ALL Europeans go on vacation either. I don't know why you think that. We haven't been away in 7 years and we're not alone.

We have no cleaning help at all.

Compare like with like.
Average European live a lower standard of gashmiyus than average American. Average Israeli live lower than average European.

You're getting confused between perks and standard of living. Everywhere has its pluses and minuses but the overall standard of living in America is higher. Obviously you still have rich people and poor people but the standard overall is higher.