Which government benefits do you recieve?

giftedmom

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 12:29 am

amother RosePink wrote:

Funded by the federal government, administered by the state.

Now you're making me wonder where all our state income and sales tax is going...

Then why is it that states like Florida have less tax and less benefits?

amother

RosePink

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 12:35 am

giftedmom wrote:

Then why is it that states like Florida have less tax and less benefits?

I just checked; only Medicaid is partially state funded. All the other programs are federally funded. And education is mostly state funded as well.

As for the other programs - since it is state administered, each state makes it's own rules. Also each state gets a different size slice of the federal pie.

ETA: and because I'm obviously bored, I checked food stamp eligibility for Florida and New York, and it seems that Florida's income eligibility limit is WAY higher than New York's. IOW, its actually easier to get food stamps in Florida than in New York. Who would have thunk???

amother

Snowflake

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 8:01 am

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Yes it's really disgusting. I don't understand what she thinks gives her the right to talk that way. It smacks of old time caste systems. "You owe us cuz we are richer and therefore better than you". What on earth.

I wasn't the one who made that comment but the oppisite seems like tremendous kofey tov and entitlement.

It's like "I'm asking you to support me but don't you dare expect any gratitude for it"

leah233

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 8:08 am

amother Purple wrote:

Have you seen the government budgets? These programs are barely a blip.

Depending on whose estimate you go with and what you consider entitlement program the government spends between over 20% to over 50% of it's money on those programs. According to some the majority of government spending in 2022 was on entitlement programs (52%). According to all is a major expense and drain on the government

amother

Purple

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 8:29 am

leah233 wrote:

That's the senior programs. Social security and medicare. Not this income based stuff.

amother

Purple

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 8:30 am

amother Snowflake wrote:

I wasn't the one who made comment but the oppisite seems like tremendous kofey tov and entitlement.

It's like "I'm asking you to support me but don't you dare expect any gratitude for it"

No one is supporting anyone here. You can try not to pay your taxes but then you'll have the IRS on your back. So you're giving taxes for yourself, not to support anyone else. The US government gets to spend that money how it wants.

leah233

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 8:37 am

amother Purple wrote:

That's the senior programs. Social security and medicare. Not this income based stuff.

Incorrect. Even according to the most downplaying estimates that are only including income based programs and that lump Medicaid with Medicare in order not to count it they are still about 20% of the federal budget. Foodstamps and HUD alone are six percent of the federal budget. That is half of what it spends on the military

amother

DarkRed

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:06 am

If you own your own home and/or rental property, you get a deduction on mortgage interest. If you earn over $119k, max out on paying social security taxes. If you pay a tax preparer, or incur business expenses, you can deduct those too.

Those of us in the higher income brackets get plenty of government goodies. No, it's not a fund transfer, but it's real money. Let's not pretend otherwise.

leah233

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:12 am

amother DarkRed wrote:

Up to $160,200 is subject to social security tax in 2023. Unless you are self employed it is difficult to deduct the cost of a tax preparer.

Those who are lower income don't pay tax to begin with. The government isn't doing anyone any favors by taking less. They take too much to begin with

amother

Forsythia

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:15 am

amother DarkRed wrote:

True, but there is a big difference between getting reductions for money you have earned versus collecting funds from a societal pot.

amother

DarkRed

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:21 am

amother Forsythia wrote:

True, but there is a big difference between getting reductions for money you have earned versus collecting funds from a societal pot.

The difference is in the semantics. Person
A has to give 20 percent of income and gets back 10, and person B just gives 10 (or more likely 5) percent.

It doesn't always work that way, but I think there's a certain צרות עין in looking at what the poor get without recognizing how many advantages accrue to the rich.

amother

Forsythia

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:35 am

amother DarkRed wrote:

No, it's not semantics. In taking loopholes, a person is asking to keep more of his money that he himself has earned. In the second scenario, a person is taking handouts - money from other people. That's a very big distinction - your own money versus another person's money.

FYI - we had discussed a situation with a Rav that relates to this. The discussion was about manipulating your income so that you're eligible for government funds, and the loopholes available for your earnings. In his opinion, the first one is a halachic concern, the second one is not. Because with the first one, you're not being totally honest to take other people's money. With the second one, you're trying to preserve more of your own money. And being that the Torah does indicate that while we do have a responsibility to pay the government taxes, the taxes aren't allowed to be excessive (or something along these lines. Don't remember exactly anymore). Just pointing this out here that there is a key difference when you talk about other people's money versus the money you yourself have earned.

amother

Forsythia

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 9:41 am

amother DarkRed wrote:

There's also a צרות עין in looking negatively at the rich for trying to make things work for themselves. Our tax laws are so ridiculous that if these loopholes weren't in place, the upper middle class and rich would probably be paying ~50% of their income to the government. So I wouldn't call those advantages, those loopholes are just fixes in place to fix a broken system. If people would have to pay 50% of their income to the gov't, it would be a disaster in many different ways. People wouldn't even try to aim for a higher income, and further the economy if it wouldn't be beneficial to them. No one would put in the effort and hard work to advance themselves if there's no reward for them on the other side.

Our tax laws are crazy. Except for the uber rich, people are just legally leveling the playing field so that their percentage rate of taxes is a fair one.

amother

Blushpink

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 11:19 am

My husband and I both work in klei kodesh, make just enough not to receive any govt benefits, and are tremendously cautious of how we spend. We work hard to make sure our kids don’t feel like have-nots, and Hashem is blessing us to have what we need. (And often, even what we want!)

amother

Ballota

Tue, Jul 04 2023, 11:49 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

I think all the imas using benefits owe a tremendous hakaras hatov to the imas here who work hard but walk with only some of their money to subsidize your lifestyles.

There are many imas working just as hard as you, but making less money. You got lucky.