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life'sgreat

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 9:01 pm

amother wrote:

You know what they say - if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, and if you can't handle criticism, don't go public with your ideas.

Pot, meet kettle.

penguin

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 10:10 pm

Quote:

Well, I realized I was wearing 3/4 sleeves and I happen to know that their minhag is sleeves to the wrist. So, were we starving and passing through, I might send DH into a grocery or something, but it would be wrong of me to walk around Monroe with my forearm showing.

Uh, that's very considerate of you, but you are wrong. If you're elbow is covered, you can walk around Monroe wherever and as much as you'd like to.

Maya, are you from Monroe? On what do you base this statement?

life'sgreat

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 10:13 pm

shnitzel wrote:

It's a fashion blog NOT a tznius blog and doesn't claim to be a tznius blog.

Then the OP shouldn't tout it as one.

sharonlangert

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 1:50 am

To the person who said:

"That being said I was a bit insulted that you insinuated that those of us who don't dress up as much as you are "frumpy" and whatever other terms you used. I wear long denim skirts, black gap t-shirts and sometimes I'll throw on stockings, a shorter skirt and still my gap t-shirt Wink

newatthis

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 3:37 am

Sharon, by saying that then people will want to dress like like the "frufrumpt" person in Lakewood is saying that the ideal is to wear black unstylish clothing. I don't understand WHY it is wrong to dress stylishly. I really don't think Hashem doesn't want us to feel good about ourselves- for different people that means different things, and of course like all things in life we need to follow a middle road.
I don't understand WHY people assume that people that dress stylishly have other problems and must all be rude and judgemental. Why can't everyone, both those that dress stylishly (some tzniusly, some maybe less according to their level) as well as those who don't dress fashionably be good people, everyone working on them selves in their personal avodah to Hashem, whether its shalom bayis, lashon harah, tznius, chessed etc
It doesn't matter WHERE you live- each person is still going to have to answer to Hashem individually at the end of the "day"

sgr

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 4:22 am

STOP BASHING AND JUDGING!!OOOH I HATE IT a bunch of self righteous women who have nothing to do!!C'mon girls,Sharon is just sharing her blog with us if we can use it great!If u don't agree or are jealous
etc etc but out and MYOB!!!Look into your own lives see what u need to fix within yourselves and stop insulting and hurting others.There are many different rabonim opinions levels of tznius etc>Believe it or not there is a huge big world out there that extends beyond Borough Park and williambsburg beit shemesh and bnei brak etc!!!with many frum communities all over the world and most women out there like to dress like sharon myself included!!So if u have nothing nice to say zip your lip and stop bashing others then maybe Moshiach will be able to come!!

shlomitsmum

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 7:59 am

sgr wrote:

imaima

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 7:59 am

lamplighter wrote:

OP, I see you're new here so let me just warn you. When you post things on here, it is to a rather wide range audience of very opinionated women Smile

If you wanted to advertise/publicize your blog- smart move to do so here but it's gonna get critiqued big time. This is in no way personal to you, it's what this forum is about and if you can take the heat, its rather exhilarating (assuming no one is being mean).
I found the tznius standards on the blog to be sketchy and for a frum young woman who wants to look good and feel great it was not the inspiration I was looking for. I DO think we need a blog that promotes fashion in a completely tznius way and by that I mean covering the collarbone, knees, legs, and elbows and nothing being too tight. I'm not that picky Smile

You have a great writing style and there is something about you and your blog that is incredibly refreshing- I wish you lots of hatzlacha as you fine tune your target audience and goals for your blog.
Hope to hear from you more and welcome!

You are confusing inspiration and "all the job done for you". You can seek inspiration in nature, art, or...blogs. You can find a color combo or a certain silhouette suitable for you in a blog post that features short sleeves. If it is only about size and length, you don't need anything specifically adjusted. A model 180cm tall can wear a skirt till above her knees, that can be suitable for a 1.60 cm frum woman. CAn you blame the blogger for featuring it? The problem with the frum population, I find, is that they don't have that much fantasy to find solution to spice up their wardrobe. Now, if you think a tzniyusdik woman don't need to spice up anything, then you don't need to read fashion blogs at all..

Now, I find the problem with how all the presumably frum hollier-than-thou ladies scrutinize OP, her sheitel and wrinkles. Tzniyus, anyone????

sharonlangert

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 9:41 am

Newatthis: I appreciate your message and agree with you except for one point. I hate using 'frufrumpt' as a term to broadly wash over the women of Lakewood. I am completely against judgmentalism in any way and if a woman chooses t0 wear all black or honestly whatever she wears it is her choice and I respect that! Most of the women here dress extremely well and look beautifully put together, yes there is a lot of black and the styles are not necessarily what I would wear but that is what makes us all unique, our freedom of how we want to dress within the guidelines of halacha. My motto: Don't judge me and I won't judge you!

sima

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 10:13 am

HI there,

I have to say, I think your blog is really cute. It's a great idea and why not put it out there. Everyone has their own opinion and standards, so ok........ don't beat her up. She's trying to help and does lots of chesed too. Perhaps you or I wouldn't wear exactly some of the types of outfits she posted but we can get inspiration from here and add some inches and tweek as we please and according to our standards. There is a huge variety of women out here so let's get along, we all have strengths and weaknesses in all areas.

life'sgreat

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 10:21 am

I just want to make it clear that I am not judging the OP for her choice of dress, nor for her blog. I AM commenting on the fact that she's touting it as a blog that's tznius and refined, which it isn't. Just be honest about it. Is all.

amother

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 12:15 pm

. I don't know why that makes me unattractive. My husband likes the way I dress - has never said otherwise and I dressed the same when we were dating so I haven't "let myself go" so to speak. I see people who only care about the shoes they wear, the channel sunglasses on top of their shaitel, their french manicure and are always looking in the mirror when they pass it. I have less respect for them than for those that may be more "frumpy" but do more chesed, say "hello" when they pass people in the supermarket and don't look down at others for dressing differently.

Although your blog is not for me I wish you luck. Although I am obviously not cool enough to be part of your group I am still happy the way I am.[/quote]"

I would just like to say that obviously you know who I am but you do not know me at all. There is no reason you should feel insulted. I don't ever judge anyone who dresses differently than me, if anything I feel judged living in Lakewood. I have many friends who do not put as much effort into the way they look and I love all Jews and all types. I have extremely yeshivish and even chasidish friend and if anything I have utmost respect for women who hold tznius to a high level.

I was insulted because you did - in earlier posts when things got heated - put down and condescend to those like me who dress "frumpy". I am sure you do feel judged living here, most of us do but while I may take a double take at you when you walk by me I would still be your friend and not ignore you - please don't take what I said to mean I am judging you. I see people look at me when I walk by but I still smile and say "hello".

I am a person who dedicates many hours of my life to chesed and am always the one to say hello to people Jews and non Jews in the grocery store and everywhere else. I would love to be your friend if you would have me as yours. If you want private message me and we can get together for lunch one day so you can get to know me for who I am. I am a lot more than just how I look.

I am sure you do a lot of Chesed and I'm sure you say hello to people in the stores. I don't feel the need to put myself in the position of ridicule by pm'ing you but I appreciate the offer. I have seen you in the stores and personally you always look past me but that's ok, I know I'm quiet, don't draw attention and again - I'm not in that "group". We have mutual friends who sing your praises so I'm sure your a wonderful person.

That being said, I do have to say this: The judgmentalism MUST STOP! Do you realize what it is doing to our community? Don't you think it is a bigger chillul Hashem when a heilig community like Lakewood represents itself as a community that has zero tolerance for anyone that doesn't resemble what an individual's ideal is? Isn't that the epitome of sinaas chinum? Do you understand that this is why so many innocent and frum children are not accepted into school EVERY SINGLE YEAR? Because of judgmentalism based on nothing but how a parent or child looks, without knowing anything else about the family, loshon horah and motze shem rah is spoken and the schools have no choice but to reject children so the other people will be 'protected' from their PERCEIVED bad hashpa'ah! Do you understand the pain and destruction of families that this causes? Imagine if your 13 year old daughter was rejected from the very people that are representing the highest from of yiddishkeit! Of course they are turned off. We MUST be more tolerant of all Jews. Let's be mekarev the girls who look a little different by inviting them into your folds with open arms, love and tolerance. Only then will they want to be and dress like you.

I do understand the pain of rejection. You don't know me so you wouldn't know my life history but I have first hand knowledge of being rejected on more levels than you should ever know. I also have been rejected by schools so yes, I understand the pain, fear, feeling of inadequacy when you have molded yourself into the person you thought you were expected to be and still get rejected. The school I was rejected from listened to Loshon Hora that wasn't true about us and wouldn't even let us respond to it or prove our innocence so I know first hand the unfair, superiority that surrounds our schools. I too agree that these principles will have to respond and explain their actions when their time comes. We are not as different as it seems - we are all mothers who first and foremost care about our children. I have a relative who just had her 3rd child rejected for no reason other than that she isn't up to the "standards" of lakewood and will likely have to send her out of town. I see how hard it is and I feel for them but what can we do? This is the town we picked to live in. If I could leave I would as many others would as well but our jobs, families, kids etc are here so we put up with it. I do believe that if we choose to live here we have no right to complain.

Again I really do wish you and your blog well, I am sure you are a very nice person - we just run in different circles. Next time I see you in the store, I'll make sure to say Hello!

shlomitsmum

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 12:17 pm

Life is great....with all due respect and sincerity.
(And I'm dreading the comeback if this is what "constructive friendly criticism looks like)

The blog IS Tznius, maybe not to your community and standards but AFAIK Monsey is not mea sharim for crying out loud ,there is diversity there....I feel like I'm watching a virtual "bleach spray session on the OP"

Could you do better blogging about tznius fashion ? we can always use variety in POV . Have you visited regular blogs devoted to fashion? Are you even a "fashion person"? Do you put thought into how you look?

if the answer is no you may not be getting it ....and I'm sorry to say that this looks like the usual Imamother bully Tznius police shtick. I hope it wont discourage the OP and others.

And honestly, you may not realize but...

You are nitpicking and judging and knocking the OP down on her efforts .
just skip her blog and let those who enjoy it decide for themselves ,their LORs ,and DH's.

Women here are discerning adults ,who wont go off the Tznius derech by reading her blog .

Ruchel

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 12:21 pm

If all Frum women dressed so tznius Mashiach would be there.
In the mean time better trendy tznius than frum in shorts and strappy tops I see everywhere.

imaima

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 12:47 pm

shlomitsmum wrote:

100%

amother

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 1:34 pm

I Just have to say that I think it is BEyOND disgusting how people are outright putting down the op. It is pure loshon hara since her name is out there and everyone knows the OP. I find ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with her blog. I happen to follow it and love it. What isnt tznius about a knee length skirt and a 3/4 length shirt? Im from flatbush and most people that I see, dress this way. The blog has great ideas of how to be FASHIONABLE and TZNIUS. I honestly feel that many women are jelous of how put together the OP is and that is why there is all the bashing..
Anwyyas sharon, I love your blog , keep it up!! especially the links of where to buy the clothes you feature.
Thanks!

sharonlangert

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 2:05 pm

ok first of all thank you to all of you who came out to defend and support me! Second of all I really am not insulted, if one person reads this thread and decides to maybe be a little less judgmental or open minded then it is all worth it.

To the girl from Lakewood who sees me in the store: Please do say hi next time you see me and do not feel embarrassed. I just have to say that you should try on working on not thinking that you are frumpy!! If you and your husband are happy with the way you are then that's all that matters. I happen to love being comfy and casual and can appreciate that as well so just please think of yourself in a higher way!!

To life is beautiful, I respect your opinion and you by no means have to look at my blog but as you have seen there is a whole wide world of frum women out there who would consider it tznius. There are many many different types, levels and even CULTURES in orthodox Judiasm and there may be more than one view on this! Your opinion is your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

I will re-iterate this once again: My blog is not for the typical yeshivish woman who has no issue with keeping the highest standards of tznius. It is for us women that struggle with this, love fashion and visual beauty and are trying to find a balance. If you find it to be blatantly un tznius I envy you for being so sheltered that you truly do not see what is going on in the world of fashion. This also applies to the woman who said women like me dress like we're going to a nightclub. What an insult...she obviously does not see what the outside world looks like. And that outside world is seeping in to our children quicker than we can keep up so rather than have them sneak to look at trash magazines let them look at my blog. That's all....

JollyMommy

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 3:40 pm

I think the blog is very well done- I did have a hard time finding the things I would be interested in though. I would suggest you categorize it in some way to make it easier to find things:

trends
celebrity
makeup
nails
shoes
accessories

get what I mean?

life'sgreat

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 3:55 pm

shlomitsmum wrote:

There's a long stretch between the blog and MS and I'm sorry you can only see the two ends of a continuum.

I'll repeat what I said one more time - you can tout it as a fashion blog, not as a blog on tznius fashion. There are halachos and one should be honest that they are struggling with X, Y or Z, but not fool themselves that it's fine to dress this way because this is their struggle. Heaven knows I have my struggles, just like everyone else does. But I try to at least be honest and not fool myself (and attempt to fool others) that it's ok because blahblahblah.

So again, to make it clear - dress as you want, I don't have a problem accepting anyone however they dress and I have friends and others that dress this way. I don't judge them. Just be honest. That's all.

Yes, I put thought into how I look and yes I'm a human female, who would love to dress to kill.

I'm not worried about anyone going off the derech because of this blog.

Isramom8

Mon, Jun 06 2011, 3:57 pm

Okay, and Sharon, maybe since you are so nice and level headed and reasonable, you can help me understand why. Why did my daughter receive a bat mitzva invitation today with a photo of the 12 year old girl in a tight, red top, and skirt that bared her knees? When she lives in a Chareidi city (while we actually do not) and attends a school with Chareidi rules. Why would parents lead a child in this direction?

While at my own daughter's bat mitzva party, she had a sign-in book with photos of herself, and a few inadvertantly exposed her elbows, so I colored over them with permanent marker. And my DH said to make sure that in real life she wears clothes that ensure her staying covered. (We are so not fanatic or hung up or uptight, by the way.)