Older single women having babies on their own, WDYT?

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 9:36 pm

Eww, I hadn't thought of that.

Well that may be the fear. Why they stay single.

Perhaps you can address that issue straight on; talk to them. Perhaps you can yourself be a Hannah. They seem to gravitate to you. That says much good about you.

The men are scared too and of the same thing.

Scared, balding, and pudgy, they are still more fun than silence and no one to watch the toddler while you shower. Silence has no charm.

amother

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 10:05 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Scared, balding, and pudgy, they are still more fun than silence and no one to watch the toddler while you shower. Silence has no charm.

Amother who has first-hand experience of being a single mother without marriage again.

I disagree totally that silence has no charm. While yes, not getting a moment's break even to shower/go to the toilet in the early years was no picnic, the silence really was golden. I loved those moments when I had peace and quiet to myself. I am glad I waited for DH vs. "settling" for anybody to "relieve" me of silence. And while I did want my own husband, that did not make me jealous of those who were married. When you are a single parent, you generally don't have the time or energy to waste on feelings of jealousy.

lucymaud

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 10:46 pm

Quote:

Children are a gift from Hashem, and they come with a father. Whether we like it or not. This is how we stay free from mamzerus. This is how we follow the way of Hashem.

Actually, mamzerus mostly applies to children from prohibited relationships, such as a married woman having an affair. A child born from the situation being discussed is not a mamzer. Personally, I think that those of us fortunate enough to build families the conventional way should not be judging those who may not have had that opportunity.

anon for this

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:20 pm

amother wrote:

I'm amother who wrote about jealousy. I based this on the fact that two of my single friends told me straight out that it is very hard for them that they have never been with a man, compared to all of their friends, relatives, and acquaintances, who have been. A single mother who was divorced or widowed is not sitting around wondering what it's like to be with a man, as (these two) singles are. So when their children are getting married, that problem doesn't exist. I didn't mean that they wouldn't be happy for their kids to have a happy life and children of their own. I do not want to appear judgmental of older singles, especially since they have it so hard without the judgement. However, being that they do confide a lot to me, I just can see many problems arising from a situation like this. Of course different people with different personalities, may not have the same issues. I am just basing this on the many singles that I personally know.

Chazal explain that, while it's human nature to be jealous of others, a person isn't jealous of his children or talmidim. I'm not married now (though I was married when my children were born), but of course I want my children to have happy, fulfilling marriages. I want my children to have all of the good things I've had in life (and more), and none of the less pleasant experiences. Most parents I know, including the single parents I'm friends with, feel the same way. I do know of a few people who don't seem to feel that way, but that seems to be a result of personality disorders or other emotional and/or mental problems--and these people are married, for what it's worth.

From what I've seen, it can be difficult to be a single parent in the frum community. Generally, there's too much gossip and speculation, and too little understanding and support. People have a tendency to attribute any problems that the children might have to the fact that they don't have a father at home. This is true even when, as in the case of some of my friends, the situation was worse when the children did have their father at home.

Lady Bug

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:28 pm

I'm just wondering, how would this child be called up to the Torah? I think this phenomenon creates lost souls.

I think it is wrong as a parent to give birth to a child in such a compromised situation, the same way it is wrong to have more children when you can't manage the ones you have, you are not mentally capable, you are old and will not have the strength to give a teenager attention in 15 years, you are having major sholem bayis problems etc. Y'know, all those situations that have imamothers yelling, "BC before anything!"

amother

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:40 pm

I disagree with everyone who says MYOB and don't make judgments. We are a community and what one person does affects the life of everyone around her. This new family structure is very public and our frum lifestyle is very private about "where babies come from". If my child ends up in a class with a "fatherless" child I don't want to have to explain that to him. If the older single down the block is suddenly pregnant I don't want to have to explain that to my child either. If rabbonim are truly endorsing this technology as a kosher way to start a family then we as a community should deserve some kind of formal "press release" showing exactly who says it's ok. What if a lesbian couple has a child this way - is that still kosher? It just seems like a way to let into our lives all the shmootz that we try so hard to filter out of our lifestyle and I really don't see that "litvish yeshivish" rabbonim are going to start oking this as OP says happened. What is the name of this rav who said it's ok? Is he going to let this child be accepted into the yeshiva he is affiliated with?

mirror

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:45 pm

amother wrote:

If my child had a classmate who was "fatherless", I would simply say the father fled the country. I know of an Agunah.

But I agree that none of my Rabbonim would give a Heter for this. I know of so many single guys with good hearts who don't earn enough to support a family. I have tried setting up older singles and my experience is that many older girls who complain about not finding a husband also never dated these older single men who earn less than $100k.

When an older single says she can't find a mentch to marry, it's because she didn't date anyone who was "beneath her dignity", meaning earning less than $100k.

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carmelita

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:46 pm

There are so many things in the frum world where you have to choose whether to avoid something that is not accepted in your circles or if you will buck the trend and do something halachically acceptable but not accepted by your community. If you choose to go outside the norms of your community you cannot expect the community to change and welcome you and your choices but you are probably going to have to find new friends...

MrsDash

Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:58 pm

amother wrote:

You know, there are many rocks you can live under to prevent such situations. Wave

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Apr 02 2014, 12:05 am

Opinionated says it's the money.

Ah, so the taxes prevent older singles from marrying. Also the high cost of housing In Town. And, tuition.

That is why a sharp minded, well informed, woman is worth her weight in gold as an older single: she can give a man a child and happiness, and home school. Billions saved in tuition.

Perhaps living OOT, if that is cheaper.

Or, living wherever he is earning his less-than-large salary.

Additionally, if they live near his or her parents, that free babysitting might enable her to work too, whether part or full time.

So, Opinated, maybe we don't have a singles crisis. We have a financial crisis. That's different, and can be addressed differently.

In some cases, anyway, perhaps.

They say friends will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no friends.

The best friend, of course, is a spouse. It can be handy to have someone else around when times get tight.

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amother

Wed, Apr 02 2014, 12:50 am

1. Non-Jewish donor means the girl can't marry a kohen, at least per somet shitos.
2. We knew s/o years back who said openly that she got married only in order to have a child, then dumped the husband. I think it's just selfish in that case and in the case here, to put your own desires first and subject a child to a difficult life.

3. Also know s/o, friend of my aunt's, who adopted & raised a child alone. Also did not end up pretty. I believe the child has serious mental health issues that don't respond to treatment. Nature, or nurture, who knows.

I am with those who say 'can't find' very often means 'won't give in on having too long a list of requirements'.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Apr 02 2014, 1:06 am

Women don't want the guy that the guy they didn't marry, when they were both young, later turned into, if he too never married.

Even though he would have become that way by now, anyway. I wouldn't mind, if we had married back then.

Because that's different.

Because I do not age in my mind.

Therefore, who is this geezer who wants to marry me? I am not that desperate! It doesn't matter that he's my literal age. Don't be so literal!

I wouldn't have minded if he had married me ten years ago and THEN lost his waistline and his hair. I wouldn't see it. I would see him overlayed with, and through, my memories of when we were young.

And he would see me that, way too. Through the lens of memory.

He would see me the way I was, with a reed waistline, a blank smile, frizzy hair, a dorky giggle, and a lot of quick fidgety movements. I'm not like that now. I don't move that way now, and my face got bigger. It isn't blank any more.

How can I trust his eyes? I know what my own are like.

What if he saw me the same way? Who needs that?

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