When you walk into someone's house and it's........

the world's best mom

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 9:13 pm

JudyJudith wrote:

I was also thinking, why is everybody giving op such slack for being judgemental ....she clearly stated that this is a neighbor & this goes on by her ALL the time. This is NOT a regular scene in most households even at the busiest hour. If you clean a house daily, it doesn't pile up to this extent.

I think op you should really look into how her kids are taken care of, & if there is any way for you to help her. I was almost crying for that amother who wrote that she grew up in such a home & she was neglected.

Being a neighbor doesn't mean knowing what her house is like at all times of day. Or even all times of the week. Based on what she has seen the x number of times that she has visited this neighbor, it seems to her like the mess is always there. She didn't really specify how much mess had piled up, she just stated the nature of the mess. Yes, it was dirt and not just clutter. That doesn't mean it has been there forever. Maybe it was cleaned the day before.

I'm not saying the mess is good, or excusable if it never does get cleaned. But you really can't know how often it gets cleaned. All it takes is one meal to make the stove dirty and dirty pots pile up. Smells can come from many things, including garbage that just needs to be taken out. OP was being judgemental and condescending. As most of the posters on this thread have said, many of us have times when our homes look like a hurricane hit. That doesn't make us neglectful mothers.

It stands to reason that OP must know her neighbor's children at least as well as she knows their messy house. Honestly, if she is ready to criticize their mess like this, I would assume she has nothing to complain about regarding this person's parenting skills. Otherwise she would have commented on that either with the messy house comment, or instead of it.

hipstamom

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 9:36 pm

amother wrote:

I'm the Amother with ADD and the disability.

I just love it when people say that I just find it "difficult" and would do it if I think it is important. Do you realize that it isn't difficult for me to keep the house clean, it is physically impossible. Due to my issues, it takes me two to three times as long to clean the same mess as it would take someone without those issue. Therefore, the same amount of housework that it takes you three hours per day to do would take me about nine. I simply cannot spend nine hours a day doing housework, since without my job we would be out on the street.

Do you really think that I don't mind the shalom bayis problems that this causes? I would do anything just to be able to keep the house clean but I can't. My house was in better shape when I could afford cleaning help and medication to treat my ADD, but now I can't afford either. When I say I can't afford it, I mean it. Right now my salary got cut and we are in serious danger of losing our house.

(((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry you are going through a rough time. PM me, maybe I can help? Do you live in NYC?

hips

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 9:39 pm

hipstamom wrote:

amother wrote:

(((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry you are going through a rough time. PM me, maybe I can help? Do you live in NYC?

hips

No, I live OOT, but thanks for the offer.

Ronit

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 9:41 pm

amother wrote:

hipstamom wrote:

amother wrote:

(((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry you are going through a rough time. PM me, maybe I can help? Do you live in NYC?

hips

No, I live OOT, but thanks for the offer.

Maybe you can have high school girls come over.

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 9:45 pm

JudyJudith wrote:

amother wrote:

hipstamom wrote:

amother wrote:

(((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry you are going through a rough time. PM me, maybe I can help? Do you live in NYC?

hips

No, I live OOT, but thanks for the offer.

Maybe you can have high school girls come over.

That is an interesting idea that I need to look into. The main issue with that is yichud since my DH is now home in the afternoons while I work.

amother

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 12:19 am

Paddington Bear wrote:

And then there is this amother who has barely gotten any acknowledgements at all.

amother wrote:

I'm shocked that no one brought this up yet. But do you know if she manages in other areas or is that the same? DO her kids have meals? Clean clothing? I'd be so angry if I now know that the neighbors and relatives knew what I grew up with and didn't do anything to help us. We grew up in filth and dirt. We never had clean clothing or food. They didn't have imamother to post these questions to, but they could have done something. If you can help your neighbor, then do so.

Do you still say mind your own business and stay at your house in such a case? Yes you never know whats going behind closed doors and yet some people do need help. My nieces go to chessed calls all the time and sometimes have horror stories they repeat. (for constructive reasons I.e. money,more help, and strictly confidental.) My 9 yr old and 12 yr old niece have made pot of soup, kugel, bathed kids, folded a weeks worth of laundry and washed up all the floors in one friday. Another one sat for hours just folding a big box of SOCKS. These women are wonderful, nice people but simply not capable of doing their household duties. I'm not judging her or feel higher than thee and I am thankful for my ability to do so, but to compare a messy house that is dirty from 2-8 to a filthy house that has a bad smell is ridiculous.
And to the poster who wrote about add condition, if you live where I do, I'd gladly give you a hand despite the fact that I don't have children of tutoring age yet. I could use with some adult, intelligent company once in a while......

Nice to bring this up. I'm the amother from this post. Big baskets of socks and dirty floors were the least of the issues. And not once did any neighbor or even relative do anything about it. Or try to help.

Also, because of how we lived then and never learned how to keep a house, we all have a hard time now managing our own houses. someone who didn't grow up in such chaos can never understand it. It hurts me to see so much judgement and high and mighty "if it's importnat enough for you,. you can manage" which isn't always true. Be thankful you never knew of the hardships that such a childhood can bring.

life'sgreat

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 12:33 am

amother wrote:

That is an interesting idea that I need to look into. The main issue with that is yichud since my DH is now home in the afternoons while I work.

Actually, it's not so clear cut regarding yichud. Especially if it's by day and you're in town etc... I really am not baki in hilchos yichud, but I would suggest you ask a shayla about this.

chocolate moose wrote:

No one is bashing the busy mom. But some women just aren't geshikt. No one is bashing those women either.

It doesn't make me want to visit them or eat in their house, though.

They're not bashing, but they're judging.

JudyJudith wrote:

Life's great you think I don't understand that everyone was created different...but I still what Tamiri wrote is true.

Even if s/o has a dissability & can't manage their home, if they love clean more than dirt & mess, they make it their priority. I'm sure this isn't the only thing that is hard for her, but usually we make things work if we want them to.

You can always hire outside help, get chesed, or have a trainer come down to your home to teach you housekeeping skills....but you need to really want it rather than the dirt, in order to make all that extra effort. Not e/o likes these options, or can afford cleaning help, but if they like cleanliness & think it's important they will look away at the other factors. Some pple would cut their expenses majorly in other ereas to make it possible to have cleaning help at least once a week.

I am not blaming them, but they obviously don't deem it that important. I otoh see that I'm a non functioning in a pig sty and therefore put this on the top10 of my list. If my house is in shape, then e/t else runs smoother.

For all the pple who said that they want to spend their sundays with the kids rather than the kids remembering them cleaning.....IMHO kids thrive yes thrive in a clean home & clean clothes...That doesn't mean that they need to remembering you tense about the cleanliness, & being obsessed with it, but some of the homes described in these threads are very very neglected. Btw Sunday is my day too to spend with the kids, & because it is important to me to start off the week in a clean home, we usually spend it outdoors. On cold or rainy weather we stay indoors, because I am involved with whatever they are doing the house stays in better shape. I usually clean for shabbos, then clean up again of motse shabbos, and then there is no need for cleaning on sunday mornings. It's such a pleasure waking up in a clean home.

Excuse me for saying this, but that is one high and mighty horse you're on. It seems to me that you, and others are simply not in tune with the world around you and the struggles that some people experience. I've seen appalling situations in regards to housekeeping, but oftentimes, if not most of the time, the struggles these people were experiencing were even more appalling. No one likes to live in filth. No one likes to drown in grime. But sometimes it is just beyond that person's capacity. If the options are to either get cleaning help, or buy pampers for your baby, you choose the pampers. If the choices are either paying for your child's medication or get cleaning help, you pay for the meds. So there isn't always a way to stretch the dollar and cut. There's nothing to cut. They've cut everything that's possible to cut already. They are barely surviving.

You are blaming them by writing that there is a way for them to change that. That's not always the case. And even if there might be a way, many don't have the knowledge, the capabilities and/or the resources to know where to even start. It's naivete to think that it's always a choice. Not everyone has a choice of putting it on their top 10 list. I don't even understand how you can fail to see that. There are often more important things to put on that top 10 list. Like survival. Emotional, mental, and/or physical.

Your last paragraph tells me just how little you know about people's circumstances. Not everyone has their life boxed into a neat little square and tied with a bow (I'm not saying you don't have hardships, we all do). Some people's daily lives are a struggle just to breathe through it. There is no way for us to know what they are really coping/struggling with and for all you know, even the fact that they have food on the (dirty) table is more than you'd manage in their shoes.

life'sgreat

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 12:41 am

JudyJudith wrote:

Oh so many typos excuse me please.

There is no excuse for that. If it's really important to you, you would find the time to go back and edit that. LOL

Fox wrote:

I know others have mentioned illness and pregnancy as potential reasons for an ill-kempt house, but I just want to underscore that we really have no idea what limitations a person is up against -- and sometimes we don't even realize ourselves why we're having so much trouble. So if you don't feel comfortable eating at a neighbor's home, don't eat there; if your delicate nose is offended, stay away. But keep in mind that you may be in a similar position someday -- for reasons completely beyond your control! How would you like to be regarded in such circumstances?

Don't stay away before you find out if there's any way you can help them.

Butterscoth wrote:

I would mind my own business and realize she must have a lot of things going on in her life. Everyone prioritizes differently because different things are more important to different people.

Why do people mind their own business when in reality, it might or at least should be their business? We're all so intent on minding our own business for the real important stuff while we all enjoy a really sweet piece of gossip about this neighbor and that boy he dated and if she gained so much weight she must be pregnant. But when someone could actually be crying out for help, we're all so quick to 'mind our own business'. G-d doesn't want us to mind our own business in such situations.

JudyJudith wrote:

I agree with Paddington & Fox.

There are circumstances that can bring a house to such levels of neglects, BUT THIS IS NEGLECT.

I was also thinking, why is everybody giving op such slack for being judgemental ....she clearly stated that this is a neighbor & this goes on by her ALL the time. This is NOT a regular scene in most households even at the busiest hour. If you clean a house daily, it doesn't pile up to this extent.

I think op you should really look into how her kids are taken care of, & if there is any way for you to help her. I was almost crying for that amother who wrote that she grew up in such a home & she was neglected.

I think your post above didn't lack judgement of those who are on the other side, the struggling people.

Ronit

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 1:15 am

life'sgreat wrote:

amother wrote:

That is an interesting idea that I need to look into. The main issue with that is yichud since my DH is now home in the afternoons while I work.

Actually, it's not so clear cut regarding yichud. Especially if it's by day and you're in town etc... I really am not baki in hilchos yichud, but I would suggest you ask a shayla about this.

chocolate moose wrote:

No one is bashing the busy mom. But some women just aren't geshikt. No one is bashing those women either.

It doesn't make me want to visit them or eat in their house, though.

They're not bashing, but they're judging.

JudyJudith wrote:

Where in any of my replies on this thread did I say that I don't understand people's circumstances? shock

There was too much on this thread about it being normal for house be like that. Op described a home truly neglected! No it isn't normal, & most human beings don't function properly living like that!

I am not saying that there aren't reasons that it can happen, but if op's neighbors house looks like that for reasons beyond her control...then someone should step in and help her. If not for her sake, than at least for her kids.

Cleaning help doesn't always have to cost $$$$!!! If someones situation is so dire, in many jewish communities there are chesed orginizations, high school programs & govt help (someone from jcc mentioned it on this thread already)

The last paragraph in the post you quoted, was directed at the mothers who say they prefer the spending time with the kids on sunday rather than cleaning (I think there where 2 mothers). I was giving a suggestion for both.

life'sgreat

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 1:21 am

JudyJudith wrote:

Where in any of my replies on this thread did I say that I don't understand people's circumstances? shock

By virtue of what you wrote, you don't understand. You say it's always possible and I'm telling you it isn't always possible.

No one said that home is normal. It was what it was and it is what it is. I didn't say it was normal and I agree it isn't normal. That doesn't mean she can help it.

Regarding someone stepping in, yeah. I said that as well. But that doesn't make judgement of the person any better.

It doesn't always have to cost money, but the fact of the matter is, it isn't always available for free. Especially on a regular basis. Oh, and I'll have you know that many times, if the house is really in such dire straits, most chesed girls will opt out. There's no way they can upkeep such a house and they don't want to do it.

Ok.

Ronit

Thu, Jan 14 2010, 1:33 am

life'sgreat wrote:

JudyJudith wrote:

Where in any of my replies on this thread did I say that I don't understand people's circumstances? shock

It may not always be possible to make things perfect, but who cares at least things will be better. So is no help better than some?

So it seems you are intent on bashing my liking for a clean environment & my feelings that it is truly important for a human being to function. Oh well go have fun.

I understand not everyones life is rosy. But that's what we are here for-to help eachother. Nu - & I consider this an important erea to help someone in. I don't think it's a luxury, but a neccesity to keep you functioning.

Maybe you don't understand what I consider filth. Leaving food out for days.....diapers on floors....mold....smelly place....and the many other things described.