S'farim in guest bedroom

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

This is not the first time this has happened. My husband and I were guests for Shabbos and the room where they put us was full of S'farim.
Why do hosts do that? Are some people unaware that a couple cannot have relations in front of S'farim?

first of all not everyone has oodles and oodles of space for their sfarim and second, who says you HAVE TO have relations when you are a guest?

we have sfarim in living room but we also have in our guest room as that is the only place that we can put them (not enough space in the living room for all of them) so sue us, but not everyone has any other options.

Seraph

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:00 pm

Shabbat, some people only do it friday night. So if they skip a week they'd go 2 weeks without. And if they're on a 4 week cycle, that would mean only having relations once or twice that month because they were abstaining as guests. (I'm not talking about myself, just about possibilities.)
I personally have been to the mikva 2 times as a guest, so telling someone to abstain as a guest isnt so simple.
I do understand about space constraints.
If you have no room aside for the guest room for sfarim, conveniently "forget" an extra sheet lying around the guest room so the guests can use that to cover the sfarim shelf.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:04 pm

Seraph wrote:

I always give extra covers and towels to the guests so personally in my home it would not be a problem.

here is a question, but its not to bash, I just dont understand. why would you go be a guest at someone's home if you know that you "have to" be intimate and there might be problems? or if it is your mikveh night? if I am ever going to the mikveh on a frieday night, I make 1000% sure to be home.

just a question, if it is pitch black and you did not notice if there were sfarim or not jewish books there before, is it a problem still? our guest room can be pitch black with the door closed and so I wonder about this?

Seraph

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:11 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

here is a question, but its not to bash, I just dont understand. why would you go be a guest at someone's home if you know that you "have to" be intimate and there might be problems? or if it is your mikveh night? if I am ever going to the mikveh on a frieday night, I make 1000% sure to be home.

I agonized over that so long. One shabbos my mother in law decided that we ALL ALL ALL had to go to her for shabbos, all the siblings in law, and we couldn't stay home or they'd get very upset at us. I tried to get out of it, really didn't want to go, but ended up going anyhow. It was annoying as anything, but thats what you do sometimes for shalom bayis.
And as for the other time- it was 3 weeks after my wedding, first mikva after the wedding, motzei yom kippur. We went to my in laws for yom kippur and went to the mikva in the middle if the seuda to break the fast. By the time we would have gotten home it would have been so late at night, so we stayed the night at my in laws...

Quote:

just a question, if it is pitch black and you did not notice if there were sfarim or not jewish books there before, is it a problem still? our guest room can be pitch black with the door closed and so I wonder about this?

I don't know. I don't know if this is an aveira or just hanhoga...

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:19 pm

Seraph wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Quote:

I don't know. I don't know if this is an aveira or just hanhoga...

ah, it was to family. ok, yes, annoying, but somehow thats a bit different, I thought you meant you were invited out stam to someone and went even though it was mikvah friday night. ok, makes more sense. that has happened to me too (but it did not matter anyway, b/c both my parents and in laws live too far from any mikvaot to walk so I had to push it off till after shabbat)

about being halacha or hanhoga, I wonder. ok, I think I will go try and find.

shalhevet

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:31 pm

It is definitely halacha that the seforim MUST be covered with two covers (I have heard a lenient opinion that the bookcover can count as one, but I don't know how many people hold by it - ask your LOR - and it wouldn't help if there were pesukim on the sefer etc).

Sorry, but I'll say it again here on imamother. I think people are weird to be guests on mikva night. I cannot believe the number of posts of 'what can I do because we are going away for Shabbos/ YT and it's my mikva night?'. The only thing I can understand is if it's a family simcha eg your brother's bar mitzva or your bil's ufruf, which I understand people can't excuse away.

Otherwise, if you are going away, mikva night or not, assume you won't have a lock on your door/ a room without seforim/ beds that don't creak/ walls made of glass or cardboard etc etc and expect the worst (and decide accordingly if it's the right week). If you aren't prepared for that, don't go. If things do work out, you'll have a pleasant surprise.

dee's mommy

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:32 pm

As to why some would be a guest on a mikvah night, here is another reason: There is no mikvah in walking distance of the guest's home, but there is one in walking distance of the host's home.

Okay, so you keep your sforim in the guest room because you have no other choice. You have to work with what you have. But on the other hand if there is another option, it would be nice for married guests. (Otherwise, leaving extra sheets and blankets to cover the seforim is the next best thing.)

Last edited by dee's mommy on Wed, Jan 13 2010, 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:49 pm

I learned in Kallah classes that if you are having relations in someone else's home you are required to bring your own sheets and towels, etc. I can't believe that this is an actual discussion. When I invite someone to my house I leave them towels as it is a natural thing to need a towel, washing your hands, your face, etc.... I definitely would not leave them extra sheets to prepare for their possible hanky pankying in my home. Quite frankly, it is their business to prepare for themselves and it's the last thing on my mind when I invite someone over. I'm so surprised that so many people obviously have this on their mind when inviting guests over. To me, leaving extra sheets lying around is the same like leaving a bottle of lubricant in the night-table, 'just in case'. You pack your own lingerie, you can pack some extra stuff as well if you really need to. And as far as going to the mikveh from someone else's home, the only time I can see myself doing that is if I had a sibling's simchah and I couldn't possibly get out of the shabbos etc....

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:50 pm

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:50 pm

Seraph

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

In my opinion, its not a normal thing to have sfarim in a guest room. So I don't bring along extra sheets just in case there's a weird setup. I do bring my own towels, but why would someone assume that there's a sfarim shelf in the guest room?

Ruchel

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 12:58 pm

I learn you should really avoid to have relations at someone else's home - and that if you have to and aren't sure of how it will go, better to postpone (or if you already went, to abstain out of tznius).

As for sefarim, not everyone has a library to put them! Sheltering you is a chessed, don't have high expectations unless it's Rothschild! Especially since many many people use the guest room also as office, place to learn in quiet, etc! there are very often seforim in there

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 1:02 pm

Seraph wrote:

amother wrote:

just wondering why not? where would you have people put all of their books. growing up, I know that in my bedroom I had chumashim and things like that, so why would a guest room be any different? my parents have sfarim in one of their guest rooms. why is it so abnormal?

amother

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 1:06 pm

my dh says he remembers whenever they had guest in their house they had to take out whatever seforim there was. He understood this once we got married. I have been at family that left sforim in the room and we just double covered it.

I don't think that it is such a big deal to leave something extra to cover the seforim with in the room if there is so much that you can't possibly remove it. why would you obstain just because you are at someone else's house? If you can make sure not to leave any evidence it's all the better, a time when you are more relaxed and have more time because don't have the regular household responsibilities.

prettyone

Wed, Jan 13 2010, 1:37 pm

I find it surprising that so many pple here are saying things like "why should I have to think about that. if they are coming to me as a guest and need extra accomodations let them work it out themselves."

that doesnt seem like the jewish way to me. frum married pple need certain things both at home and when they are a guest and any frum married host should understand that and try to make their guests as comfortable as possible. if its a space issue so put in some sheets. if its something else so try to accomodate. why have guests if you are not going to do it right. its a big mitzva to have guests but if they are uncomfortable the whole time so what was the point?

we all know not to put a couple in a room with one bed so if that is ABC to us then why shouldnt the opposite be the same.

try to think what Avraham Avinu would do.....