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-> Household Management
-> Kosher Kitchen
Hashem_Yaazor
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 Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:22 am
| GR wrote: | I grew up OOT, not keeping bishul yisroel. Most people (Lubavitchers) I know OOT with few exceptions (I can think of ONE family), don't keep bishul yisroel.
When I got married, I cut out all potato chips, not including Pringles or corn chips. We use non-heimishe brand cereals too (athough I always buy Kemach anyway). Don't ask me why, it doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what we do. | Um, bishul yisroel is halacha and I hope most people keep it 
(Pas Yisroel is more likely to be something that you'll find Lubavitchers makpid on vs some of the rest of frum Jews.)
But, as others mentioned, classifying what needs to be bishul yisroel is where different shittos come into play.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:29 am
BY has strict criteria. It's not so simple. For some it's only high class food, for some it's only when made for you personally (by someone who saw you, or not), for some it's everything but bread, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishul_Yisrael for a short summary.
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gryp
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:31 am
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | | GR wrote: | I grew up OOT, not keeping bishul yisroel. Most people (Lubavitchers) I know OOT with few exceptions (I can think of ONE family), don't keep bishul yisroel.
When I got married, I cut out all potato chips, not including Pringles or corn chips. We use non-heimishe brand cereals too (athough I always buy Kemach anyway). Don't ask me why, it doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what we do. | Um, bishul yisroel is halacha and I hope most people keep it
(Pas Yisroel is more likely to be something that you'll find Lubavitchers makpid on vs some of the rest of frum Jews.)
But, as others mentioned, classifying what needs to be bishul yisroel is where different shittos come into play. |
Okay, you're right. I said that bad. But that's how we say it around here.  I didn't mean to be so confusing. I should have said that most people I know don't hold that chips and cereal are fit for a king's table.
(I don't know any Lubavitchers who don't keep Pas Yisroel. Pas Yisroel is pretty standard.)
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GetReal
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:39 am
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Right, all Lubavitchers and I would think all frum Jews keep bishul Yisroel. Some Lubavitchers (including this one) and many other frum Jews do not hold that potato chips need to be bishul Yisroel.
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gryp
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:41 am
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Maybe the difference between Pringles and all the other chips, is that Pringles are only 42% potato. Who knows.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:42 am
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We have a Jewish bakery here but some people, including charedi, including Chabad (how do I know? because I know them) still buy at the local supermarket because it's cheaper.
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curlytop
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:43 am
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Back to the original topic, I just checked the pringles I have in the house (original) and they do have a Hebrew Hechsher as well, but no mention of dairy. Guess its not all of them.
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ValleyMom
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 11:35 am
Maybe IF I was willing to be as machmir on all these minhagim I would lose all this excess weight!!!
I'll eat ANYTHING with an OU!
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Ruchel
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 11:38 am
| ValleyMom wrote: | Maybe IF I was willing to be as machmir on all these minhagim I would lose all this excess weight!!!
I'll eat ANYTHING with an OU! |
Don't laugh. When I kept my minhag I was sliiiiiiiiiiim and lost 5 kilos on Pessach
Now, I fatten, thank you dh 
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Tova
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 4:07 pm
| GR wrote: | I grew up OOT, not keeping bishul yisroel. Most people (Lubavitchers) I know OOT with few exceptions (I can think of ONE family), don't keep bishul yisroel.
When I got married, I cut out all potato chips, not including Pringles or corn chips. We use non-heimishe brand cereals too (athough I always buy Kemach anyway). Don't ask me why, it doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what we do. |
EVERYONE has to keep bishul yisrael. [I have not finished reading the thread so I don't know if someone else has pointed this out.]
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Fabulous
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 4:10 pm
| ValleyMom wrote: | Maybe IF I was willing to be as machmir on all these minhagim I would lose all this excess weight!!!
I'll eat ANYTHING with an OU! |
not true, a lot of the kosher brand items are more fattening like cereals and even ice cream. CY yogurt ice cream is like 140 calories a half cup and premium (not yogurt) Cholov stam ice cream is only ten calories more.
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Tova
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 4:16 pm
OK - GR - I see your subsequent post. For some reason (don't ask me why I take it so personally) I feel like it's SUCH a shame for these basic food-related halachic terminology to be so mis-used. This is basics for us. 8th grade halacha class. Repeated in 10th. It actually makes me sad to read.
I actually had a debate with a poster a while back who was insisting that she could not buy rice cakes because it was not pas yisrael. When I said that rice cakes don't need to be pas yisrael (pas yisrael refers only to products made from the 5 grains) she accused me of belittling her chabad minhagim!
I don't mean to sound preachy here, and this isn't the tone I usually take on this board (I don't think!) but isn't this the basics of the basics?
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gryp
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 4:42 pm
Again, this is just the lingo we use. Not meant to be taken literally. You're right that it's incorrect, but it's kind of short-hand for what I really mean.
ETA: I use plain OU rice cakes. I don't know what the other poster meant by "chabad minhagim." (I usually buy Liebers anyway.)
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TzenaRena
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 5:14 pm
sarad, I actually wasn't aware that some consider potatoes as not oleh al shulchan melachim.  Rice and Corn, is the usual debate, with some holding that it's not.
As far as opinion of finished product or what it's made from, I'm pretty sure that according to the Rabbonim of our community it's the stricter opinion, IIRC from the Kashrus seminars given by them that I've attended in earlier years.
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Tova
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 5:28 pm
GR - what she meant, as she later explained, was that she only uses products w/ heimishe hechsherim. No idea if that is a Chabad minhag or not.
As a general point, I just want to make clear that the OU, OK, Chof-K, Star-K etc. only certify bishul yisrael (according to the shittos of their Rabbanim hamachshirim). It is not like Cholov Yisrael where OU will certify (albeit w/ a "D" designation) non-CY items.
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gryp
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 5:59 pm
| Quote: | | was that she only uses products w/ heimishe hechsherim. No idea if that is a Chabad minhag or not. |
No, it's not.
It may be a minhag some Chabad people keep, but it isn't a Chabad minhag.
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Tova
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 7:17 pm
| Hashem loves me wrote: | | Tova wrote: | | Presumably this goes to different opinions in how the halachos of oleh al shulchan melachim (fit to be served at a royal banquet) are applied. When looking at the finished product, potato chips, they would seem to be exempt, but some opinions hold that you should go and look at the originating food. And since potatos are "royal foods," the laws of bishul akum would apply. We personally go by the opinion which looks at the finished product. |
I would have thought that potatoes are not oleh al shulchan melachim. Arent they known as a poor man's food? |
I often see roasted potatoes as one of the sides at a chassuna. People serve it at a Yom Tov table or with guest. As such = oleh al shulchan melachim in the potato form.
My husband's contribution -
Sefer Emes L'Yaakov on Shulchan Oruch - Yoreah Deah siman 113 - on the din of oleh al shulchan melachim on seif alef - The "m'pi hashemuah" (the sefer has 2 parts - one written by R' Yaakov Kaminetzky himself and the other written by a talmid R' Breslower from Monsey and other talmidim) - there IS bishul akum on potato chips even though the chip form is not oleh al shulchan melachim because the min of potato is oleh al shulchan melachim. Same with hot dog/salami (naknik)- even though hot dog/salami is not oleh because the beef is. The proof for all this is a bit lamdush, so I'll stop here.
Many other poskim hold otherwise and say you go by the finished food. They explain R' Yaakov's example w/ the potato chips saying that because potatos can either be cut thick or thin, and in the thick form ARE oleh (while thin makes chips!) you have to be machmir on the thinly cut chips. But with other things they commonly hold you go by the finished form of the product.
The OU (Rabbi Belsky) does not go according to R' Yaakov's shitta and potato chips w/ an OU are not bishul yisrael.
[GR - to get back to the OP, I have not had Pringles since a camper many many years ago, but now after you posted the ingredients I am not sure I would want to!]
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Tova
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 7:24 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | We have a Jewish bakery here but some people, including charedi, including Chabad (how do I know? because I know them) still buy at the local supermarket because it's cheaper. |
That's another issue - PAS yisrael. There are heterim for commercial bakeries.
There are no heterim for bishul yisrael. Any food that is NOT in the eaten raw category and IS in the royal food category (of course, both these categories have different opinions!) must be bishul yisrael.
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leomom
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:07 pm
| Tova wrote: |
As a general point, I just want to make clear that the OU, OK, Chof-K, Star-K etc. only certify bishul yisrael (according to the shittos of their Rabbanim hamachshirim). |
Can you clarify this? I have avoided things like Imagine soups (OU pareve) that are made from foods you wouldn't eat raw, on the assumption that they are not bishul yisroel. Same with things like canned pumpkin. Are you saying that if there's an OU, OK, etc., that these products are actually bishul yisroel? I would love to know!
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chocolate moose
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Mon, Feb 15 2010, 9:13 pm
| GR wrote: | I grew up OOT, not keeping bishul yisroel. Most people (Lubavitchers) I know OOT with few exceptions (I can think of ONE family), don't keep bishul yisroel.
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Bishul akum is treif and will ossur your keilim.
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