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In this week's Jewish Press...what do you think?
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queen




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:55 pm
I personally think it was an excellent letter. Probably written by a NY resident. I don't agree with her birth control issues, however as a whole she has a very good point- NO ONE CAN TAKE BETTER CARE OF YOUR CHILD THAN YOU. (ok Motek, you're correct, maybe a grandmother--- However to the baby, no one can replace you.)

We have let our life styles get so high that it's very hard for most to live on one income. It's up to us when possible to be creative with the venue we wish to take in order to bring in extra $. At the end of the day though- Having a relaxed happy mother/living more modestly usually produces healthier children than kids brought up by others as parents are working round the clock to supply kids with whatever they might so desire.

Great thread OP! Thumbs Up
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:57 pm
happymom wrote:
I see the way babysitters in general treat the children. I can tell in a minute which child is with the mother, and which child is with the babysitter. Most of the time the babysitters (when I go to the park) are chatting on their cell phones, while their babies are looking sad. and needing attention that they arent getting enough of.


This seems a little strange: maybe some of the cell-phoners are really moms that you think are baby-sitters, and maybe some of the nice ladies are really baby-sitters that you think are mothers.

There are many fine baby-sitters, and this is not the nicest thing to say on a forum where some (or many) of the women are working out of necessity, not because they want to.
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happymom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:00 am
I am writing my opinion. Most mothers would not ignore a child crying in the swing because they are talking on thier cell phones. and even the ones that would, its more likely for a babysitter to do that then the mother. It hurts me to see this cuz I feel bad for the kids and my point is that if anyone does have a babysitter for whatever reason, they really should check upp on them to see how "good" they really are.
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happy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:02 am
Quote:
That's what they all say. Not too many mothers will admit that if they made some lifestyle changes, they could stay home.


Try telling that to a couple franticly trying to come up with 500-600 a month per kid tuition. Or paying astronomical costs for health insurance. How about the high costs of buying food/meat for yom tovs? Even with BOTH working it is nearly impossible. Did I mention the cost of rising rent? Or fuel/heat in the winter.

What lifestyle change could remedy all that Question
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:03 am
Crayon210 wrote:
happymom wrote:
I see the way babysitters in general treat the children. I can tell in a minute which child is with the mother, and which child is with the babysitter. Most of the time the babysitters (when I go to the park) are chatting on their cell phones, while their babies are looking sad. and needing attention that they arent getting enough of.


This seems a little strange: maybe some of the cell-phoners are really moms that you think are baby-sitters, and maybe some of the nice ladies are really baby-sitters that you think are mothers.

There are many fine baby-sitters, and this is not the nicest thing to say on a forum where some (or many) of the women are working out of necessity, not because they want to.


Come on don't latch on to the word cell phone in particular, I have seen PLENTY of really not good babysitters, stuffing little ones into strollers, sitting at the park shmoozing with their friends who are also babysitters and ignoring the kid for a VERY long time, others letting one year olds roam free and not watching them, not caring where or what they're putting in their mouths. I happen to know that the few times that I saw REALLY bad behavior from the help and I told on them cuz I knew whose kid it was the parents were very appreciative.
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:06 am
But I've seen lots of wonderful baby-sitters who really care and are dedicated to the children they take care of.

And I've seen moms who can ignore their kids for hours on end.

Again, I don't see the point of discussing mean baby-sitters in a setting where some of the women really feel forced to work, and aren't doing it for self-fulfillment or any other such thing.
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happy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:06 am
The only lifestyle change I can think of is becoming non-frum!(chv's)


Quote:
That's what they all say. Not too many mothers will admit that if they made some lifestyle changes, they could stay home.
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:13 am
Crayon210 wrote:
But I've seen lots of wonderful baby-sitters who really care and are dedicated to the children they take care of.

And I've seen moms who can ignore their kids for hours on end.

Again, I don't see the point of discussing mean baby-sitters in a setting where some of the women really feel forced to work, and aren't doing it for self-fulfillment or any other such thing.


True, but all in all the kids are still being raised by non jews.
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:18 am
Raised?

And what if that's the cheapest but best care a mother can afford?

I think you're being unfair to a lot of mothers here. Sad
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:47 am
Crayon210 wrote:
Raised?

And what if that's the cheapest but best care a mother can afford?

I think you're being unfair to a lot of mothers here. Sad


ok, then raised as in the same way husbands spend more time with the women they work with than their wives.
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:53 am
What?!
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Emuna




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 1:09 am
I was also idealistic about babysitters when I had ONE child. But after three in three years, I realize it's almost impossible to do it without help. I used to look at "nannies" in the park with disgust, but now I have a different view. There is no way I can bring three babies (ages 2, 1, and newborn) to the park and remain functional. Yes, it's unfortunate that the child spends even ONE MINUTE in non-Jewish hands, but:

Who can afford Jewish help?
The frum teenagers are not always available and/or reliable.

AND

At the park the kids all play together and basically get out all their energy in a good, healthy way, no matter who they're with.
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suomynona




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 2:15 am
Motek wrote:

Quote:
call on any Gadol you want – go ahead and I dare you to do it right now – and ask him if your husband’s limud Torah is worth the sacrifice of chinuch habanim. He will say NO.


Baloney! The reason WHY the mommies are working to support their husbands is because this is what they were taught in school is the ideal way of life.



Exactly my thoughts when I read that line. Many gedolim today don't believe that men should ever go to work.
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baby's mom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 3:17 am
[quote="Crayon210"]
baby's mom wrote:

Quote:
If circumstances were different and I "had" to get out and work (I currently work from home, around DD's scheduale) I would be my DD's teacher, so that I can be there with her.


Not everyone gets to pick out the specifics of their job like that.

Quote:
I believe, especially at this young age (18 months) no one can take better care or love her as much as I do.


What if you didn't have enough money to pay the rent? Would your care and love keep her dry when it's raining?


We all make decisions in life. It's a matter of prioritizing our lives objectives.

There's an old saying that if someone said something about you (general you) that bothers you, you should look at it a thousand times because there's a good chance that it is true.
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PinkandYellow




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 4:18 am
Quote:
I believe, especially at this young age (18 months) no one can take better care or love her as much as I do.


Of course, but who said I have to be there all day to give him that better care and love? I work, and give him excellent care and love from when I get home until I leave the next morning.
I'm sorry, but its the quality not the quantity. I work full time but exclusively breastfed until 10 mths, pump twice at work- and I'm giving my kid the message that even though I work, he is my priority bec even at work I will use my whole lunch break to pump so he can have benefits of mommy even when mommy isn't there.
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PinkandYellow




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 4:25 am
Crayon210 wrote:
...some of the women really feel forced to work, and aren't doing it for self-fulfillment or any other such thing.


I know I'll get slaughtered for saying this, but here goes:

I work bec I need to work but even if I didn't need to work for parnassa I would work anyways. because I enjoy it. bec I don't want to stay home all day. I enjoy working, and getting out and don't enjoy being home for more then 3-4 days (max) at a time. by the end of my 3 mth maternity leave I was going out of my mind. I like to work and still think I'm there for my baby. I will try to have my cake and eat it too bec I think its all in your attitude. you (royal you) are very narrowminded if you think that the only way to convey love to your children is by being home with them all day long.

Now you can start to bash me.
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queen




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 8:48 am
MosheDovid'sMom wrote:
I work full time but exclusively breastfed until 10 mths, pump twice at work- and I'm giving my kid the message that even though I work, he is my priority bec even at work I will use my whole lunch break to pump so he can have benefits of mommy even when mommy isn't there.


your pumping at work is bec. YOU want it to be good for baby. When you're not with baby, irrelevent of giving pumped milk or not- YOU ARE NOT THERE.

We give our babies our milk bec. WE know it's better for them. They need the breast just as much as they need the milk. Getting it from the bottle doesn't tell them Mommy cares about them.

I am not telling you you're horrible for working full time, but rather shedding some light on your comment
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happy2beme




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 9:19 am
sorry, but since we're bashing working moms I'd like to bash some SAHM.

Do you know how many SAHM I've seen that yell at their kids because they just have no patience anymore. They take care of their kids all day & as soon as dh comes home they shove the kids in his arms & say: "I've been taking care of them all day- your turn." Do you think these kids feel 'the love' more bec she's home? I think they feel it much less!

I think you do what you can, you take upon urself what u can handle. if u cant handle being a SAHM - go out for a little- don't make ur kids feel like a huge burden! when there's a happy mom- there's usually happy kids!

whatever happened to judging dan l'kaf zechus???

I went to a neighbors house (who's an SAHM) & she was upstairs & had a maid answer the door & when I saw the ( only 2 older!) kids- they had someone watching them. Did I assume the worst? well, yeah, for the first few minutes- but then I thought- maybe she's sick, maybe she just can't handle it, maybe her inlaws are super rich & just give these helpers to her, maybe the person watching them is really a therapist...

yeah, there's bad things on each side. there's never a perfect situation!

I obviously know the bad side of working, so I listed the bad side of being a SAHM

In a utopian world, yeah, everyone would be SAHM. But those people would also have all the patience in the world (& all the $ to support)
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 9:34 am
baby's mom wrote:
We all make decisions in life. It's a matter of prioritizing our lives objectives.


And who are you, or the community, to decide how others are to prioritize their decisions? As if you have the right to judge based on your limited knowledge of others' situations?

Really, I guess I could afford to stay home. But that would mean I would have to kick my father who is staying with me while he is battling cancer on to the street because I wouldn't have enough money to pay for food for him or rent for a large enough apartment for us to all live in.

Or better yet, maybe I should re-prioritize and we could all live cramped together in a 2 room basement, I could have the dream of saying home with my children, and we'll all live happily ever after... But wait, what about shalom bayis? I guess that's just not as important as staying at home.

It's a good thing I don't care about anyone else's opinions on the matter and only what's best for my family at this time, but it's sad to think that so many women are made to feel miserable because of this baseless judging by others. And yes, I do mean baselessly because as much as you think you may know, you don't know what's going on in their pockets and behind their closed doors.
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happy2beme




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 9:35 am
Quote:
MosheDovid'sMom wrote:
I work full time but exclusively breastfed until 10 mths, pump twice at work- and I'm giving my kid the message that even though I work, he is my priority bec even at work I will use my whole lunch break to pump so he can have benefits of mommy even when mommy isn't there.


Quote:
Queen wrote:
your pumping at work is bec. YOU want it to be good for baby. When you're not with baby, irrelevent of giving pumped milk or not- YOU ARE NOT THERE.

We give our babies our milk bec. WE know it's better for them. They need the breast just as much as they need the milk. Getting it from the bottle doesn't tell them Mommy cares about them.
I am not telling you you're horrible for working full time, but rather shedding some light on your comment

ACtually them getting it from the bottle does tell them mommy cares for them! maybe not when they're infants but when they're older (at 3 yrs old u can explain it if they see u doing it for a younger sibling & say u also did it for them or also they'll know when they're teenagers & young moms) how u worked hard for them to be happy & they do understand that u 'sacrificed' for them to be healthy & good.

plus, an infant tastes the diff between formula & breast milk. there is a level of comfort for them to taste breast milk even if mom's not there.
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