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In this week's Jewish Press...what do you think?
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MommyLuv




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 9:53 am
Staying at home with your kids all day is not for everyone.

If a woman is a happier person because she gets out the house and works, then comes home to her kids feeling accomplished and positive, her kids are much better off than if she were to stay home "doing the right thing" but resenting it.

I really don't think you can make broad generalizations about SAHM raising happier kids than working moms.

I have friends on both sides of the spectrum...

Some of the most balanced, secure and sweet kids I know have working moms who are utterly devoted to them when they are with them....

And then there are the kids who are neglected emotionally and even physically even though their Mommy is home all day.

No one here can judge what is really going on in someone's life or the quality of another woman's mothering.
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MommyLuv




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 9:55 am
Quote:
And who are you, or the community, to decide how others are to prioritize their decisions? As if you have the right to judge based on your limited knowledge of others' situations?

Really, I guess I could afford to stay home. But that would mean I would have to kick my father who is staying with me while he is battling cancer on to the street because I wouldn't have enough money to pay for food for him or rent for a large enough apartment for us to all live in.

Or better yet, maybe I should re-prioritize and we could all live cramped together in a 2 room basement, I could have the dream of saying home with my children, and we'll all live happily ever after... But wait, what about shalom bayis? I guess that's just not as important as staying at home.

It's a good thing I don't care about anyone else's opinions on the matter and only what's best for my family at this time, but it's sad to think that so many women are made to feel miserable because of this baseless judging by others. And yes, I do mean baselessly because as much as you think you may know, you don't know what's going on in their pockets and behind their closed doors.



nicole, 100% in agreement.
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happy2beme




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:00 am
wow, mommyluv, u said it so much better than me!
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:04 am
red sea wrote:
Crayon210 wrote:
Raised?

And what if that's the cheapest but best care a mother can afford?

I think you're being unfair to a lot of mothers here. Sad


ok, then raised as in the same way husbands spend more time with the women they work with than their wives.


Ok, I've always said my late night posts don't get worded well since I am so tired.

Let me be clearer, by that I meant that I do not think that any great bonding issue that would replace the parental ones happens to kids who get babysat. But the point of non jews having all that time with the kids for non jewish values to rub off is not a good thing, it can't be, no matter how we love the best of the babysitters. Right, when the jews entered E"Y we had to kick out ALL the non jews, they couldn't even be our neighbors, no? do I remember the parsha wrong? I know most people would choose a good jewish babysitter if there were such a thing (the kind that comes to your house, I know for a lot of people it doesn't really make sense to send their kids out for many diff reasons) over a good non jewish one.
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TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:12 am
Quote:
Yes, it's unfortunate that the child spends even ONE MINUTE in non-Jewish hands, but:
Once, in the park I saw a neighbor's child with his non-Jewish babysitter. She was feeding him some of her own treife snack shock . this was a special needs child, whose mother was extremely dedicated, but really needed the help. I told the mother about it, and she appreciated that.

How can you know what the non-Jewish ( or non-frum) babysitter is really feeding your child? How do you know they aren't treifing up your kitchen? including bishul nochri/akum? After all if you aren't there, they have to feed your child, no Confused Even with firm and fast rules, how can you be sure?

I learned that the meat [and dairy products too] must be double sealed or under lock and key when a non-Jew works in a house where there is no Jewish presence, unless someone who has the key can come in at any moment, and does . Otherwise it's a problem basar she'nisalem min ha'ayin, which is assur.


Last edited by TzenaRena on Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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shopaholic




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:14 am
There's nothing wrong with going to work. Like I said, I've started working again too. But to leave your kids with a non-Jewish woman? That is something I can't understand. I don't even leave my clenaing lady with my youngest while I go 1/2 a block to get my ss from school.
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girliesmommy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 10:35 am
SaraYehudis wrote:
I learned that the meat [and dairy products too] must be double sealed or under lock and key when a non-Jew works in a house where there is no Jewish presence, unless someone who has the key can come in at any moment, and does . Otherwise it's a problem basar she'nisalem min ha'ayin, which is assur.


As usual, each person must ask their LOR. I can tell you that I spoke with a (prominent) lubavitcher Rav, who upon hearing of my situation, didn't tell me that my kitchen and/or food has to be under lock and key. He explained to me exactly what my babysitter can and can't do regarding cooking/heating up food.
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mummy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 11:49 am
I'd love to add the quote that I am answering to but I dunno how.

I have a friend who waited 5 years to have her child and went through treatments. She went back to work and leaves her baby with a non Jewish cleaning lady and she does the same for shopping and social.
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mimsy7420




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 11:51 am
maybe she's in debt from all the treatments.
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 11:53 am
mummy wrote:
I have a friend who waited 5 years to have her child and went through treatments. She went back to work and leaves her baby with a non Jewish cleaning lady and she does the same for shopping and social.


Exactly, only1. You don't know what's going on in her pockets, even if you think you do, so it's none of your business!
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happymom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:17 pm
Quote:
Again, I don't see the point of discussing mean baby-sitters in a setting where some of the women really feel forced to work, and aren't doing it for self-fulfillment or any other such thing.


this is MANY TIMES not the case. I think alot of woman blame "I need to work" on their selfish feelings of, I want to be free and let someone else care for my child for 5 hours a day, or whatever it is. for the many woman who feel this way, I think It is wrong!

Crayon, why do u think its not nice to post a view that staying home is btter for the children? I find it not nice when ppl arent saying things like "I know its MUCH BETTER for mom to be with the kids, but right now I have no chpice" they are NOT saying that! what many mothers say is this "Not only do I need to work to be happy and a good mother etc... its a GOOD THING TO WORK shock shock This is a very misguided attitude. It just shows how much feminists have changed our world. ALl the mothers who feel guilty working take that guilt and try and convince themselves and others that working is a good thing. This really bothers me.
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mimsy7420




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:32 pm
happymom wrote:
Quote:
Again, I don't see the point of discussing mean baby-sitters in a setting where some of the women really feel forced to work, and aren't doing it for self-fulfillment or any other such thing.


this is MANY TIMES not the case. I think alot of woman blame "I need to work" on their selfish feelings of, I want to be free and let someone else care for my child for 5 hours a day, or whatever it is. for the many woman who feel this way, I think It is wrong!

Crayon, why do u think its not nice to post a view that staying home is btter for the children? I find it not nice when ppl arent saying things like "I know its MUCH BETTER for mom to be with the kids, but right now I have no chpice" they are NOT saying that! what many mothers say is this "Not only do I need to work to be happy and a good mother etc... its a GOOD THING TO WORK shock shock This is a very misguided attitude. It just shows how much feminists have changed our world. ALl the mothers who feel guilty working take that guilt and try and convince themselves and others that working is a good thing. This really bothers me.


I think crayon was just saying stop bashing nonjewish babysitters - because although its not the ideal, many women here use them because they HAVE to and you might be making them feel bad.
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mummy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:34 pm
Quote:
I went through some infertility problems before my daughter was born, and through my experience I met some extraordinary women. One with nine failed IVF cycles … another with eight miscarriages. Every one of these women would happily sell themselves as maids if they could only know the joy of having children. And believe me, when they do, they won’t be dumping them off on non-Jews to raise.

only1 and nicole81 you missed the point. I know that money is not the reason but even if it was, thats not my business. My point is that even though plenty of what she is saying is true she is overplaying and throwing guilt.
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happymom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:36 pm
Quote:
I think crayon was just saying stop bashing nonjewish babysitters - because although its not the ideal, many women here use them because they HAVE to and you might be making them feel bad.


I think they need to be aware though of things that can and have happened with non jewish babysitters. (non kosher food... etc) Also, I dont understand how a mother can feel comfortable sending their kids to a babysitter, or having one in their home when they don't even know what is happening! There are ways to "check" out the babysitter. my sister for example had a hidden camera in her house to see if her babysitter that she had for two hours a day was actually as good as "they say." thank g-d she was but u really NEVER know.
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mummy




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:36 pm
Iwas trying to quote from the article and then add but I did s/thing wrong. hope u understand.
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mimsy7420




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:41 pm
happymom wrote:
Quote:
I think crayon was just saying stop bashing nonjewish babysitters - because although its not the ideal, many women here use them because they HAVE to and you might be making them feel bad.


I think they need to be aware though of things that can and have happened with non jewish babysitters. (non kosher food... etc) Also, I dont understand how a mother can feel comfortable sending their kids to a babysitter, or having one in their home when they don't even know what is happening! There are ways to "check" out the babysitter. my sister for example had a hidden camera in her house to see if her babysitter that she had for two hours a day was actually as good as "they say." thank g-d she was but u really NEVER know.


ok but you are missing the point. just watch how u say things because you might be making women here feel bad.
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Mama Bear




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:47 pm
well.... I just came from the park... a black nanny showed up with a little boy and a little girl in a stroller. Mother at work? mother at the gym? Nope... this mother has 2 year old triplets and an 8 month old baby as well, and she is home with them, but need help to survive! You all wouldve judged her without knowing the facts!
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:49 pm
happymom wrote:
Crayon, why do u think its not nice to post a view that staying home is btter for the children?


I think it's not nice to say these mothers have worse relationships with their kids and that they're doing something wrong by going to work, even though lots of moms do it because they HAVE TO. And to start bashing the baby-sitters, making the moms feel even worse... Sad

Quote:
I find it not nice when ppl arent saying things like "I know its MUCH BETTER for mom to be with the kids, but right now I have no chpice" they are NOT saying that! what many mothers say is this "Not only do I need to work to be happy and a good mother etc... its a GOOD THING TO WORK shock shock This is a very misguided attitude. It just shows how much feminists have changed our world. ALl the mothers who feel guilty working take that guilt and try and convince themselves and others that working is a good thing. This really bothers me.


I personally am of the belief that it is ideal for a mom to stay home with her kids, but there are often extenuating circumstances.

There are also cases in which the mother isn't "able" to spend her whole day with her kids. Yes, it might be outside influences, but it's still better for the kids to have a happy, loving mom who's around a little less than a mean mom who begrudgingly spends her days with her kids. Obviously a person can work on herself, but should be honest about where she's holding and might consider getting a part-time job to give her a break.
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shayna82




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:49 pm
my feelings: dont judge someone until you are in their shoes? no money problems, thats great for you. others can barely make ends meet, and NEED to work or they will be out on the streets. just dont judge. Exclamation
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mimsy7420




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 30 2006, 12:52 pm
shayna82 wrote:
my feelings: dont judge someone until you are in their shoes? no money problems, thats great for you. others can barely make ends meet, and NEED to work or they will be out on the streets. just dont judge. Exclamation
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