Home

Do you allow mixed singing at your Shabbat table?
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Poll

Do you allow your daughters to sing at a mixed Shabbat table?
I encourage my daughters to sing at the table
 28%  [ 29 ]
I don't mind if they sing
 13%  [ 13 ]
I strongly discourage my daughters to sing at a mixed table
 9%  [ 9 ]
My daughers would never dream of singing at a mixed table; they've been taught it's against halacha
 49%  [ 49 ]
Total Votes : 100


Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 9:18 am
No problem. It's as a group AND religious!
I wouldn't encourage or discourage. They'll do as they feel like..
We were invited once for shabbes at dh's cousin (a very frum rabbi) and his wife sang.
Back to top

shevi82




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 9:47 am
It's really not a question of opinion.
For people who follow Halacha: women cannot sing in front of strange men.
Back to top

Tamiri




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 10:04 am
Isramom8 wrote:
I voted 4 but it's not entirely accurate that they would not even think of singing.

For those who sing, what do you think of this scene? DH invited a MO family over for Friday night. Now usually guests do what you do even if they do differently at home, right? Not this woman. DH started singing Shalom Aleichem. This woman looked at me and asked in horror, "You don't sing?" I said something like, "Yes, when we can." She said in this very assertive tone, "WE sing." And proceded to lift high her lovely soprano voice to the pesukim of Shalom Aleichem. And motioned firmly for her teenage daughter to join in.

I thought it rude and never invited them back. It's one thing to be unaware, or to have a different shita. But I was clearly uncomfortable. DH, of course, ignored her singing; you have to ignore some things to be a successful rabbi in a mixed community.
I think she was trying to teach you a lesson. Quite rude.
Back to top

ally




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 10:47 am
shevi82 wrote:
It's really not a question of opinion.
For people who follow Halacha: women cannot sing in front of strange men.


The halacha is not that clear cut.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 10:58 am
shevi82 wrote:
It's really not a question of opinion.
For people who follow Halacha: women cannot sing in front of strange men.
excuse me but that is just not true, or rather that is waaaaaaaaaay too general.

there are rabbanim who say that it is ok to for women to sing in a group, meaning not a solo. and that is halacha too.
Back to top

HindaRochel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 10:59 am
I am not a good singer, and don't really enjoy it, but it was never a question Neither was I ever anywhere where women didn't sing.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 12:12 pm
This has been discussed to death. It goes from "no, never, not even your own husband during nida", to "yes, everywhere, anything clean". Search engine.
Back to top

HindaRochel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 12:16 pm
There are even those who will listen to a single female vocalist as long as the song isn't a love song....
Back to top

slushiemom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 12:19 pm
and of course, as most of the men I know hold, that a recording is perfectly fine, as well as a video (I.e. musicals or something) as long as you don't personally know the woman.
Back to top

Peanut2




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 12:24 pm
shevi82 wrote:
It's really not a question of opinion.
For people who follow Halacha: women cannot sing in front of strange men.


I am not an expert on this. However...

There are a lot of disagreements about when the issue of kol isha applies, like if it is relevant only when a man is reciting shema and similar activities (singing zemirot may or may not fall into that kind of category), or always applicable, and whether it refers to a woman's singing voice or her voice in general.

When it comes to singing, it is also possible to be lenient* in the following situations AFAIK:
1) When it's more than one woman singing, 2) it's an unmarried woman singing, 3) the singing is of a religious nature, and even 4) the woman is not singing love songs or inappropriate songs.


*When I say it's possible to be lenient, I mean that the are respectable rabbinic opinions to back this up.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 1:03 pm
HindaRochel wrote:
There are even those who will listen to a single female vocalist as long as the song isn't a love song....
ill chime in here and say that my husband goes to plays with me because there is a school of thought (dont ask me which rav said this, I forgot and I would have to ask my husband) that if the woman is singing through a microphone it is also ok. I never knew this before I got married, so you learn something new every day.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 1:05 pm
I want to go and sing at the New Star because of the mike and clean song thing, but I doubt I'll end up doing it Wink
Back to top

Chocoholic




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 1:20 pm
I love to sing at the shabbos table, however, I always feel very self conscious because I think I sing like a false crow.

But, I have no problem with, my future daughters or any woman singing at the table.
Back to top

HindaRochel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 1:26 pm
Chocoholic wrote:
I love to sing at the shabbos table, however, I always feel very self conscious because I think I sing like a false crow.

But, I have no problem with, my future daughters or any woman singing at the table.


I've always claimed that my voice was so bad it didn't qualify for Kol Isha...crow here as well..
Back to top

freidasima




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 2:45 pm
a non issue with us as we hold that kol isha does not apply unless it is a woman, singing face to face alone in front of men with no microphone or sound system or instruments.

Groups of women - fine
mixed groups - fine
microphone - fine
Video - fine
with instruments - fine

So our rabbonim taught us and so we hold.
Naturally I will be aware of what my guests feel and hold and will do a lot not to embarras them, same if I am in a general public. But in my own house with my family and friends who hold like we do? Not an issue.
Back to top

grace413




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 2:48 pm
Hinda Rochel, that's my line!
Back to top

Shiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 3:57 pm
I once heard that a man is not allowed to say a dvar shebikedusha while he hears singing of a female. No difference who that female is. I think its like ervah. Some say that zemiros is considered dvar shebikedusha.
Back to top

Tablepoetry




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 4:00 pm
Another crow here. My husband wishes I would sing, he thinks I'm too self conscious about my voice.
I love it when female guests come and join the singing.
Back to top

slushiemom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 4:03 pm
a shana reshonanick wrote:
I once heard that a man is not allowed to say a dvar shebikedusha while he hears singing of a female. No difference who that female is. I think its like ervah. Some say that zemiros is considered dvar shebikedusha.


care to back that up with a source? I once heard a lot of things... good thing I dont straight out believe everything I hear! (especially things I heard in seminary)
Back to top

Isramom8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 08 2010, 4:10 pm
Chareidi society is pretty strict about this. No live or recorded women's singing voices for boys from age nine.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 2 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Can't polish brand-new glass-topped coffee table 1 Tue, Sep 10 2019, 3:57 pm View last post
Shabbat Lamp in Jerusalem
by amother
2 Mon, Aug 12 2019, 12:17 pm View last post
Wants to kill himself bec don't allow movies
by amother
20 Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:40 am View last post
"Our Table" Renee Muller Whole Wheat/Spelt Challah recipe?
by amother
10 Wed, Jul 10 2019, 11:54 am View last post
Singers singing opposite gender songs 27 Fri, Jun 28 2019, 9:59 am View last post

Jump to: