15 yr old wants to learn math/general secular subjects HELP!

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 05 2010, 12:08 pm

There was this guy named Shlomo Hamelech who said something like Chanoch l'naar al pi darko.

You know what's best for your son. What you need is someone who can guide you in such areas as
-finding a good school, not just academically but that won't be such a disconnect for him or make him feel disenfranchised from Yiddishkeit
- empowering you, giving you a vocabulary in dealing with others who will question your decision

If you really really have no one in your community, you may want to try to track down Dr. Bentzion Twerski (Dr. A.J.'s son) who I know is active at www.rabbihorowtiz.com .
I hesitate to mention any one person's name as so often that turns into a referendum against that person. I don't know Dr. Twerski personally but from everything I've read that he's written I think he would be very understanding of your situation.

Hatzlacha!

P.S. I've learned, in parenting my kids, that you can give one child what s/he needs and guess what, the rest won't clamor for it if they don't need it themselves. They will feel loved and secure in your always trying to do what is in their individual best interests.

Tzutzie

Thu, Aug 05 2010, 1:10 pm

There are many private teachers out there who teach math and other secular subjects. He could have private sessions after yeshiva. There is nothing wrong with wanting to learn Math or other secular studies. My grandfather zt”l who was a Menahal in an Ultra Orthodox Cheder taught oldest sister book keeping and now, more than 25 years later she’s still doing it and loving it. My grandfather and my father taught my brother all mechanical rules including plumbing, electric and even building. Today he is a handy man, doing all kinds of stuff even contracting. He has 2-3 sheirim every day and there is no such a thing as missing minyan no matter what, is a yirash shomayim and a good husband. He is liked by man and g-d. What else could someone ask for?

I do not see is anything wrong with wanting secular studies. I could really do him some good if he has an earlicha teacher to teach him some math or whatever he wants.

All the things I read here so far, some are better than others and some are worse than other. Every one means good but you still have to ask Das Torah before making such decisions.

May Hashem grant you the seichul and the clarity to make the right decision and may you see a lot of yiddish nachas from him and your other children. Amein

Last edited by Tzutzie on Thu, Aug 05 2010, 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thu, Aug 05 2010, 4:15 pm

Im not charedi. OP you sound like you're a great mother and loving.

Every person should have a strong education (Jewish, secular, etc) and a higher education if possible.
Knowledge of math, science, etc etc is just critical as far as I am concerned. We call these things "secular" but they are just as much religious study as his gemara class! These are the laws Hashem implemented to govern the universe. They are not un-religious! PLEASE let's all do our best to make ourselves educated, dignified, and a light unto the nation. Not ignorant people afraid of knowledge. IF we have true belief in Hashem we would be secure that knowing his world will only strengthen our emunah. DONT be afraid of evolution, gravity, math. What kind of nonsense is this? Whatever is fact is only fact because Hashem created it that way. We just strive to understand it.

I am all for people learning for a living, kollel, etc. I think we need people who work, people who learn, etc etc. But everyone should have the fundamentals of education first! It saddens me when I see that the non-religious or non-Jews are not mistaken when they call us backwards, ignorant, uneducated etc. Our minds should be sharpened and honed from our study of halacha and Torah.

israelmom

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 2:23 am

It is difficult to tell from your question where you live.
Do you live in Israel?
If so, then your question is more difficult. Haredi schools here stop secular education after 8th grade,

We were in a similiar situtation with our son. After much thought and listening to what our son was saying, we pulled him in the middle of 10th grade out of his haredi school and put him into a dati leumi school with a full range of secular subjects.

It was extremely difficult for him to catch up- he had a lot of tutoring but he pulled through. He is much happier now but it has introduced many more issues into the mix that we weren't confronted with before since he had been attending a more closed school.

If you are in Israel (or other places) check into schools that are haredi but give secular subjects. Each year more and more are cropping up.

Is it a stage? Maybe. But you have to know your kid. Holding him in a school where he is unhappy can have disasterous effects.

mricci

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 4:33 am

rather than switching schools altogether, you could keep him where he is, but get a math tutor/private teacher, and see how he likes it. I think it's great he's showing such interest in his studies, religious or not. he sounds like a very bright boy. if he's really talented and you nurture these talents, imagine the confidence you'll be helping him build. not to mention the skills he'll then have if he ever needs or wants to work...

amother

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 6:04 am

We are having a similar issue with our 15 yr old boy. He wants to go to a totally SECULAR school next year because the religious schools in our area are no good (no good academically, and weak student population). I don't mind so much, as he's a good boy and I'm not worried about him going wild. I do want him to get a good education. My dh does mind and wants to force him to go to the religious school.

Let me enlighten you all. You CANNOT force a stubborn 15 yr old to do anything. He will either openly rebel and refuse to get up and go to school altogether (what can you do? Ground him? so what?) Or he will rebel in a passive aggressive way, getting back at you in a sneaky way (not davening or something). He's got the power. It's not like you're going to beat him black and blue or kick him out of the house.
So the best route is to avoid these conflicts altogether. Get him on the same side you are. Your son, op, hasn't requested anything too wild. I would agree in order to have smooth sailing and keep a good relationship. Otherwise, rebellion is sure to come, or maybe grave resentment in the future when he sees how your decisions have limited him.

But I am concerned that your son will find it very difficult to keep pace with kids who have learned secular subjects for years. You'll need a lot of private tutoring at first, unless he's absolutely brilliant.

Hatemywig

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 6:35 am

OP - I don't know your son, not at all, but having read your posts I think that the issue here is not really maths.

Your son is clearly unhappy in his Yeshiva - does that mean that he will be unhappy in any Yeshiva environment? I don't know, and by talking about studying Maths he feels that he can get your attention.

I would check out everything, all issues regarding his Yeshiva, not just his desire to study Limudei Chol.

hycup

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 6:39 am

amother wrote:

He'd rather not go back to a regular yeshiva. He wants more of a general yeshiva high school education. In our circles it's not really accepted.

Chanoch Lanaar Al Pi Darco - if your community doesn't accept you sending your son to another type of yeshiva then they don't accept the Torah kula!

Isramom8

Fri, Aug 06 2010, 7:54 am

I'm in the Chareidi Israeli world as far as my kids' schools, and I think I understand your situation. (Others here don't seem to get this culture.)

I feel that either you should find your son a typical yeshiva that he likes more, or an alternative yeshiva with some secular subjects, or if you can't find these then a more modern yeshiva high school. Better that he be enthusiastic than sick of it all. But it's a risk, because a child identifies with the culture in which he is raised.

Another option might be to study privately for bagruyot and do the tests. If he is under 18 he would need his menahel's permission.

Another option is that only at 18 he could enter a michlala chareidit and begin to study and test for bagrut, and later study a skill.

overwhelmed mom

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 2:29 pm

There is an online school currently being endorsed by Chabad which teaches all secular subjects. It's called National Connections Academy. They can be reached at 877-804-NaCA (6222) and mention the promotional code CHABAD to receive a discount. They have a variety of math and English courses, full and part-time. The advantage is that he can do this in between his regular Torah studies without compromising them.