What age did you introduce Tznius to DD

smilethere

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 8:22 am

I think it is more important to introduce tznius as a concept rather than in measurements at such a young age. You can discuss and encourage tznius in the bathroom, whilst dressing and undressing and in language.

In our family, we start little girls off at age 3 already, with skirts, tights, long sleeves, etc. Sometimes socks till 5 etc, but I think it is early enough. No need to overdose with pressure on little kids.

fiddle

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 8:31 am

amother wrote:

My DD is alomst 2 but very advanced in understanding and we were thinking of introducing some Tznius into her life... Maybe stop wearing pants... Just curios to hear what other Mothers have done. Please share

if thats your minhag for your daughters to stop wearing pants and short sleeves at 2 then thats when she should stop.

and you dont need to discuss it with her no matter how advanced she is. just change her wardrobe. not necessary.

I thought you were referring to older children like 12, so I just opened this thread. but theres a concept of modesty that you can teach, like keep your legs closed if your wearing a skirt, or dont pick up your dress and shirts bc our body is ours and special and not to show the world - that you can do at a young age. but as far as tznius laws - thats minhag. and whenever you change over her wardrobe. not up for discussion unless shes 6 and can comprehend.

Ruchel

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 8:34 am

It really depends on what is done around you!

Tznius as a concept can be started with the bathroom etc as smilethere said.

Covering this or that precisely, you can do it when it's the norm by you, or when you feel it's time (my dd was in skirt/dress from start, because I happen to not like the pants look on a girl, so I never had to switch). Explaining it can be when she understands and knows the names of the body parts.

I have created a song for dd about covering knees and elbows and not wearing low cut tops, though definitely I don't mind if her sleeves/skirt don't cover the elbow/knee. She asked me to add the tznius rules she learned at school (attached hair and tights, not really mandatory but seen as better there), I did it though I don't believe in the need for them personally.

I'm a believer that "younger is easier" and that early habits are not difficult to keep. Some believe in using all the freedom you can have as long as possible (which is bat mitsva to some, or even later "when she looks like a woman"). Both are valid, you just need to know if you have a family mesora or if your rav or kehila do something special...

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:18 am

it totally depends if you live in a community that enforces little girls to be a certain way or not. I live in a community where anything goes and I will do that for my daughter. I will slowly show her things over the years. I will not enforce anything until she starts school and I am sure there will be some sort of dress code (if nothing else a skirt below the knees and a shirt near the elbows) and that will be the extent about dress wise.

as for acting in a tzanua way, that we already do now. I tell my daughter if she is doing something that is inappropriate and tell her (example, lift her shirt in public, right now that does not matter as she is two, but I want her to learn what is right and wrong in actions)

ididit

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:29 am

when my oldest DD was less than a year old, I attended a local Chinuch series. one lecture was given by a beloved Rebbetzin about many issues including Tznius. one thing she said was that our minhag was to dress girls in tznius clothing when they turn three. they then grow up feeling that is what is natural/normal for them. six girls later, I wholeheartedly endorse this concept.
some other things she said which have also proven true:
-when walking with your DD, mention passing ladies who are dressed tzniusly as being "pretty", "lovely", "nice". don't use the word "tznius". this way your daughter will associate those words with the look of tznius.
-remember the term "es pas nisht" it means that something is not fitting for you. use this term when DD wants something that is not tznius or aidel. this gives her the message that, like a princess, she is "above" crass things.

oh, I learned so much in such a short lecture. truly pearls to live by...

fiddle

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:35 am

ididit wrote:

shevi82

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:43 am

Quote:

Why wouldn't it work? They get the message that we are daughters of a king and we look beautiful no matter what is accepted elsewhere. I don't think they would look down but rather be proud of how they look.
Last Summer I happened to go to a very non religious wedding in Beer Sheva, Israel. (very hot city!) I walked in with my mother we were both dressed in beautiful elegant suits, shaitels. My mother turned to me and said "I feel like a nun at the beach" LOL

But we both felt proud and beautiful, if you know what I mean...

Ruchel

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:44 am

ididit wrote:

-when walking with your DD, mention passing ladies who are dressed tzniusly as being "pretty", "lovely", "nice". don't use the word "tznius". this way your daughter will associate those words with the look of tznius.
-remember the term "es pas nisht" it means that something is not fitting for you. use this term when DD wants something that is not tznius or aidel. this gives her the message that, like a princess, she is "above" crass things.

oh, I learned so much in such a short lecture. truly pearls to live by...

Won't the little girl start saying also the contrary: "she's not tznius, it's/she is ugly"? My dd does that, I have to tell her it's not allowed to say mean things.

I'm trying now to find a good French translation for es pas nisht. lol My mom used "c'est pas digne de toi" (it's not worthy of you) or "tu es au dessus de ça" (you're above that) when she wanted to prevent me from doing something that didn't feel right.

ewa-jo

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 9:57 am

I don't have daughters yet, but what I will do, when I have them, is to begin around a year and a half or so... when they start walking. I really wouldn't want my child to 'get comfortable' with something and then have it taken away. And once you get past age 2, then children develop a mind of their own and may start refusing things. IMO, you're at a perfect place to begin to dress your daughter like a little lady. You can tell her that you are getting her tights to wear (for example) just like all the big girls wear... because she's a big girl now and isn't she lucky...etc. (rather than 'we don't wear that, it's not 'tznius')

Chayalle

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 10:03 am

Even though my DD is a very bright little girl B"AH, I don't really feel that at her age tznius would translate to not wearing pants (she's almost 2 1/2). Rather I try to teach her that she should not run out of her room when she is being dressed, or coming out of the bath...teaching her that certain parts should be covered.

(The winter will soon come and it will be cold, and I have a pants-wardrobe prepared, that I don't feel is problematic for a 2-year-old.)

I'm big on letting them fit in with their peers (this of course works well when you live in a community where the standards around you are also your standards.) So she will stop wearing pants when the rest of her little friends do...and then longer socks when everyone around her is doing the same. In this way, she will B"EH feel she is already a "big" girl and be proud to join her friends in increasing her own tznius awareness.

yaakovsmom

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 10:35 am

My DD is 4, and I haven't enforced any tznius rules on her in the area of dress. She happily runs around in her sleeveless tops. I've found that we can phase out certain things like shorts because she sees her friends aren't wearing them as much, and so I'm not taking away something from her. She is willing to give up something if she thinks she is being a 'big girl', or fitting in with her friends. Right now, anything she does tzniusly is the area of dress has been at her initiative. Maybe I'll take a firmer stand when she is older, but for now we are very go-with the-flow, and it is working okay for us.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 11:12 am

In my community tsnius begins at the age of three. Tights, sleeves, skirts, etc.

My oldest, however, is very tall. By the age of 2 and a half she was already the size of a four year old (and built like a line backer at that point). I would get plenty of remarks from people when I took her out in pants that it was inappropriate for her to be in pants until I pointed out that she wasn't 3 yet. So I just switched her into skirts early and only started with full tights at age 3. It was a case of "morris ayin" so to speak.

Even now, she's only seven, and people think she's 10 or 11 because of her height and verbal ability (and bli ayn hora she's a reader).

My youngest I didn't start until she was 3. But in general I once heard someone give over the concept that she tells her daughters that a jewish woman is as holy as a sefer Torah and each has it's special garments that keep it covered, etc.

ididit

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 11:27 am

and the ones who dont dress as yourself are not lovely and pretty? they get the message not that tznius makes you beautiful - but rather to look down on anyone who you dont approve of. unless you live in williamsburg, KJ or new square. I dont think this will work.[/quote]

please forgive me, it's hard to put a whole manner/attitude/life lesson in such a small space. I don't live in williamsburg,KJ, or new square. as you can see from my userid, I live in crown heights, and we do have a horrible lack of tznius problem here. as I said, I have 6 DDs ranging in age from 5 to 21. we have many relatives who are not frum, so my kids are around non-tznius dress alot. they DO NOT have a superior or "holier than thou" attitude. when they encounter a non-tznius outfit, they understand that is the "normal" for that person. when they encounter a friend who is frum, but had become lax in tznius, they tell me, "she is missing so much by dressing like that; it's sad."

as for the whole "pretty" thing, let me try to clarify.
my mother is an artist, trained in textile and clothing design from a highly respected fashion institute. I was raised to appreciate fine fabrics, well-made clothes, classic designs. my mother would walk with us and point out well-made clothes, clothes that fit properly, good color choices and combinations. it was all done as a "teachable moment", not in a snobby way. (sort of like when we would take nature walks and she would point out the different birds or flowers and their distinctive qualities). to this day, I physically squirm when I see an outfit that mixes prints and plaids. it goes against my visual training, as my mother constantly pointed out that it did not look "right".
am I making sense here? it's not about expecting everyone to fit the cookie-cutter approved look. it's all about visual/mental training. every little (and big Smile

) girl wants to feel and look pretty. the Rebbetzin's method was to associate "pretty" with basic tznius values/guidelines. when you are raised with that kind of training it's harder to break the habit than if you just have a memorized list of rules keeping you covered.

Atali

Wed, Aug 18 2010, 11:40 am

My DD decided on her own at 15 months that she didn't like pants and would kick and scream if I tried to put them on her (except for pajama pants, she doesn't mind those for some reason). So the pants went "bye-bye" then.

My DD (now two) is also very big and looks like she is three, so my DH decided that for maaris ayin reasons we should put her in long sleeves this summer so that is what we did. She even pulls the skirt over her knees and the sleeves over her elbows if they ride up. However, the negative side effect of this is that now she absolutely refuses to wear a swimsuit at camp Confused

and insists on playing in the water fully dressed.

We don't make her wear tights or socks, however, and are not makpid on the neckline.

kalsee

Thu, Aug 19 2010, 2:02 am

ididit wrote:

shevi82 wrote:

I think this is very true. in general I don't believe in saying it's not tznius but rather it's not nice.(like when young dd picks up her skirt)

I love these.

imaima

Thu, Aug 19 2010, 3:41 am

smilethere wrote:

Or maybe, not lifting her legs or bending deep down, when she is wearing a skirt? This kind of thing..

imaima

Thu, Aug 19 2010, 3:47 am

Ruchel wrote:

ididit wrote:

Why dont you just say es pas nisht? We do not speak yiddish but there are expressions that are better remain untranslated. Do you translate Baruch Hashem and Has veChalila?