If you could learn in Kollel all day

amother

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 3:31 pm

sky wrote:

No. I could not.

Daven shacharis. Get home by 8:30 so spouse can get to work. Take all kids to babysitters. Get to yeshiva. Learn. Mincha. 1:45, time to pick up the kids. Get home. Give them a snack. take all the kids to go food shopping. Get home. 3:45. spouse gets home from work. (or bring kids to a second babysitter). Get back to learning. Learn. Get home 8:00. Eat supper. 9:00 back in yeshiva. 11:00 get home. Try to help spouse a little, straighten up, etc. 11:30 get to sleep.
6 days a week. (Sunday most likely without the kids part)

thinking about it some more I have about the same schedule because I'm a WAHM, I work in the evening and morning. However, I don't think I could sit and learn and argue over the same points all day. And if I did I think I would end up going round and round in circles.
I also don't think I'd be able to handle not having a day off for months on end.

My experience of kollel is that the men get a LOT more time off than men who go out to work.

To answer OP's question on a bit of a tangent, I think I'd love to be married to a kollel guy while being supported financially by someone else (as so many I've come across are). What an easy life! Look after the kids or send them out to daycare while I go off to the gym, have a manicure or get my sheitel set, spend ages creating beautiful desserts for shabbos, where I invite lots of guests (after all, what else do I have to do? and any way its not me paying for all the food). If one of the kids is sick, dh can easily take time off to help look after them or at least help with the others so I dont have to drag them all to the doctors office.

Yep, that sounds like the easy life to me.

Oh and then when the funding is suddenly withdrawn, I might have to learn what its like to live in the real world.and lets hope dh at the very least can answer a hilchos shabbos sheeila. or maybe not, since his learning was lshem shamayim, not for some practical outcome.

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 3:35 pm

amother wrote:

sky wrote:

Look, I'm not exactly enamored of the culture we're in either but (and this is not a challenge where I'm playing devil's advocate)
- some people are getting lavishly supported. Many others are not.
- some people are getting somewhat supported and still have to work really hard, especially if in longer term kollel where the parents may have finished with their commitment.
- men can't take off of kollel at the drop of a hat. They have chavrusas who are counting on them, for starters. Further, many kollelim have rigid attendance requirements to head off just this.

And yeah, I feel bad for the kids who've never had a taste of reality, and I don't mean the tough stuff like illness, etc., just everyday life without a buffer. But that's not everyone.

louche

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

To answer OP's question on a bit of a tangent, I think I'd love to be married to a kollel guy while being supported financially by someone else .

Somehow I think that what OP was getting at was not would you like to be a kollel wife, but would you, personally, if you could, like to learn all day? As in, you're independently wealthy thanks to a trust fund your great-grandpa set up for you, you have f/t household staff so you need not lift a finger at home, your kids are in school so you need not look after them all day, and you live in a place that has a women's kollel. (Drisha Institute, anyone?)

Would you like to learn all day if you had that kind of freedom to do so? Many of us pay lip service to envying kollel men who get to do just that, and now OP is asking if you would really want to do that if you could.

OP, am I on target?

HindaRochel

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 4:10 pm

Somewhat...but nix the envy angle.
OP was simply surprised that most people,given the chance, would not choose a learn all day vs stay home and take care of the kids all day vs work all day.

Given an ability to choose a mix of the above OP would take the mix.

If my choices were limited to the above 3, and neither money, guilt, nor social approval a bar, I would choose learn all day.I was kind of surprised that more people wouldn't want to learn all day as I find it exciting. Ireally just wanted to understand people's thinking.

louche

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 4:19 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

, I would choose learn all day.I was kind of surprised that more people wouldn't want to learn all day as I find it exciting. Ireally just wanted to understand people's thinking.

Why are you surprised? Just b/c you find learning exciting doesn't mean everyone must. People find all kind of things exciting that you might find to be crashing bores.

Among the many things ppl find exciting that others find a big yawn:

Spectator sports
The stock market
Other people's vacation pictures
Quantum mechanics
Brangelina
Vogue magazine
Classical music
Classic literature
Cake decorating
Pictures of other people's grandchildren
Golf

Need I go on?

louche

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 4:32 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Because isn't that what we will all be doing in the time of the Moshiach?

1. Not accordng to all opinions. Some believe that life will be normal, iow, people will work, cook, do laundry, and the only thing different is that all humanity will recognize ol malchut shamayim.

2. even if that is what we'll be doing in Mashiach tzeiten, that doesn't mean everyone has to be excited about it in the here and now. Maybe that's in fact what will make mashiachtzeiten special--that everyone will WANT to learn all day.

amother

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 5:27 pm

I was in kollel.

After I graduated from university I went to a women's yeshiva and got paid to learn. I didn't get paid much, and it was exhausting. Since then I've been working, still not paid much (but more), and working super hard.

It's different than work. With kollel, there is never an excuse not to learn. It's not the kind of "job" where you can come home and forget about work. And the hours are very long Smile

If you spent a year or more learning after high school, think of that, but with less/no "chavayot" and social time, more pressure and the need to live up to expectations and serve as a role model. Well, at least that was my experience. And I miss it!!

maofboys

Wed, Oct 20 2010, 8:46 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hear some huge universities have childcare. So why not a kollel?

Fun side: there is a well known kollel in Paris that provides "childcare" (daycare very nearby if not in same building for the kids of the kollel men with a working wife).

that is such a great idea! more yeshivot should have that
I am a WAHM my DH works also (but wishes he could learn all day) maybe one day Be'ezrat hashem.
if I could change I wish I was a SAHM basically what I do already but without the work. yes I am busy but its better to be busy then bored. I take my son to the park we go shopping togther, pick up my big kids... clean the house make dinner... and then have the stress of work I think without it I would be more relaxed. but adult conversation would be missed I think that is the hardest part to staying at home all day.

natmichal

Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:16 am

I did the yoatzot course in nishmat which is 2 full days learning and more learning at home on the other days (usually about 4 hours at home). Since dh was learning/working too, the kids' responsibility still fell on me for the most part, so it's a good thing it was only 'part time" (even though it felt like full time).
I LOVED it. it was wonderful to learn at a high level, and I got lots of comments of how good I looked (it seems I was more radiant even though it was really exhausting).
I wanted to continue after that, but most programs demand learning every day, and since dh works full time and we live an hour's drive from any (good) learning place, it would mean the kids would be seeing me real little- and I think they do need me more than that at this stage. Later on in life, I;d go back no problem.

ps- not being able to focus in a class is not such a problem when most of the time you're learning in havruta- you have to be disciplined in order to learn and not chat, but once you are, it's just learning.

ABC

Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:24 am

spsdr wrote:

I used to think that my dh had it real easy n I would switch any day...now since I started studying myself I cant see how he does it daily. Just had an end of semester exam tody - the sheer tiredness of all that craming was def worse then pregnency related. So no am not ready to switch wth dh anymore the end of semester is more than enf for me!

Do kollelim make their students sit exams? If they don't I think they should. I've heard that men 'learning' at the Mir means very little for many of them. It sounds very prestigious, but for all those other than the real learners, it sounds very lax, just coming and going whenever they please.

I for one would find full time study in a subject of my choice exhilarating. But I get the impression there are many guys who feel/are pressured to sit and learn, when it may not really be something they are so interested in.

chanchy123

Thu, Oct 21 2010, 5:42 am

natmichal wrote:

My dream is to do the Yoatzot course. But now with work and the kids I just can't make it work. Hopefully, when the kids get a bit older and DH is making more money.