Help me before I strangle my teen dd

amother

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:18 am

chatouli wrote:

I am very sorry to hear that your dd is causing you so much sadness. I would be concerned too in your position but mainly because of the potential consequences at her school and to her reputation. I hope she understands them. Talking to boys, while inappropriate in your circles, is not such a crazy thing for a 13 year old girl to want to do. I'm not sure she needs therapy, but she definitely needs to understand what it could do to her reputation and that reputation is so important to her future. Maybe a trusted rebbetzin (unaffiliated with her school) is the right person to explain that to her.

So your dd was speaking to this dropout bum kid who is her age. There is a 13 year old dropout in your neighborhood? Have you tried speaking to his parents and asking them to keep him away, or do you think that would only serve to make your dd more interesting/desirable to him? Showing her ads about talking to strangers would seem to be somewhat besides the point now, since he is not a stranger and she clearly is showing an interest in him.

Clearly she cannot be allowed to socialize without a parent present for the foreseeable future. I did not grow up chareidi, but I was certainly not allowed to be with friends without a parent present until I was much older than 13. That is not so draconian. Maybe make her watch a younger sibling in the afternoons - I found that there was nothing like a big-mouthed kid tagging along with me at all times to keep me honest Very Happy

Hatzlacha!

thankyou for yur reply.
Talking to his parents wont do anything. He is a dropout - talking to girls is the least of their problems with him - especially as he has found such a good catch as my dd LOL

About younger sibs - it may work, although the younger ones are also friendly with him coz he has this cute dog that they love. OTOH I told everyone today to tell me or abba if ANYONE is talking to this punk. Its not loshen hora, its about saving that kid being thrown out of school and her reputation! Oh boy I have parents-teacher's tonight-I am dreading it....I am wondering if I should pre-empt the school and say something like 'this being the age that girls start getting interested in other things, maybe we cn hve more afer class activities?" We'll see how much courage I have.

ABC

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 3:44 am

Firstly I am concerned by the title of this topic, cuz it betrays feelings that I think are not in order here. Obv I know you don't really want to strangle her, but it shows you are angry with her, and ur op mentions boosha, which should not be your 1st thought at all.

This isn't about you and how u look to ur community. This is about ur delicate relationship with ur teen. I think u shld get some professional advice, maybe from a wise rebbetsen who has had teenage daughters.

This is more about ur dd's rejection of authority. maybe she feels too limited by her world, and has a rebellious streak? how has ur relationship been with her up til now? are you close (or did you think were?
do u know who her friends are, do they spend time in ur home?

whatever u do, pls try and show her consistent acceptance, understanding and LOVE. along the lines of 'u know I don't approve of what ur doing, but its not cuz I don't understand how ur feeling, its cuz as an adult I can see the wider picture and I dont want u to make big mistakes now which could impact ur whole life'. speak honestly and openly with her, otherwise I think u risk just pushing her away and giving her cause to be even more deceitful.

bhatslacha

Hatemywig

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:12 am

OP, while I understand that this situation is nerve wracking and stressful, after reading the entire thread there was one thing lacking, something you either neglected to mention or have not done.

Have you sat down and had a real talk with your daughter? NO, not a telling-off and you-being-anxious and tense talk, a calm talk? Listen to your daughter, hear what she has to say, about life, about being a teen, about the new feelings and hormones. Have you explained the reason why you don't want her talking to boys? Have you shown her Halachos? Why is it different from discussing HIlchos Shabbos and Kashrus?

Listen to you daughter, spend more time with her, take her out for an Ice cream, do a project with her.

ChossidMom

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:23 am

amother wrote:

We are charedi and she goes to BY in our charedi area.

Last year we found out my dd (12yrs old) had been emailing a 'guy' she some how 'met' on an innocent internet game. Her friends had told her about it,and she signed up behind our backs. We had a big talk about the dangers, I showed her some eductional videos about girls who had done the same,and ended up dead, or reputations ruined. SHe got banned and punished - and all was ok.

She is an excellent student gets great grades, always helping me, very mature and basically a great daughter. After that initial thing I went back to trusting her. I let her go to friends in the neighborhood, she goes out Friday nights to walk with her friends (she is now 13) and they are all good friends from good families.

Near where we live is a drop out bum of a kid who likes my girls...and seeing as he is not anymore at school he is always outside on his bike or playing with his dog, which my girls love. We have forbidden them from speaking or playing with him. Last week she asked if she could go to a bat mitzvah party of a girl in her class. The party was a stone's throw from my house in a shul hall, we said yes, when she asked for an extension on her curfew I agreed because she had just gotten a great grade in school, so this was a reward.

Tonight a friend of mine called me to tell me that there are rumors flying now as she was not at the party, rather she was talking to him all evening on the wall. She admitted that that is what happened. I told her she is grounded, has no pc rights (she checks emails to communicate with family) she cant use the family cellphone (texting was always disabled, and there is nothing in her email acct to suggest she was messaging him).

Idont knopw what to do. If the minahelet finds out she will be expelled from school. The boosha! - what should I do to stop her acting like this????

OP, if you are charedi, in a charedi area and your daughter attends BY, how is it that she goes walking on Friday night with her friends? I am assuming that you mean after the meal. All By's that I know discourage or downright assur girls going out walking on Friday nights after the meal. my almost 13 year old doesn't step foot outside my house on Friday night. We hang out together, playing games or whatever. leaving the house is not an option. All the at risk kids (for lack of a better term) are out on the main road in k.S. hanging out and co-ed shmoozing at that time.

Also, what's the story with Bat mitzva parties? your school allows Bat mitzva parties? our schools do not. only the party in school. No parties in halls or at home. This is to prevent jealousy.

Sounds to me like there may be some parental controls in order. We are not talking about an 18 year old. At this point, you should be able to exercise more control.

Another point - the internet/email thing is a very slippery slope. My daughter is not allowed near my computer.

And yet another point - not a great idea to reward good grades. Very not educational.

My opinion - more parental control otherwise you may lose control completely. And all the 'educational' videos won't help then. Why is a 13 year old BY girl watching videos? The schools completely assur them. So now she has to lie in school if they ever ask her if she watches videos?

ray family

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:33 am

amother wrote:

Idont knopw what to do. If the minahelet finds out she will be expelled from school. The boosha! - what should I do to stop her acting like this????

[I]

honestly I don't have teenage girls so I really don't know what you're going through but the fact that you're worrried about the "boosha" involved is more concerning for me than what your daughter is doing.
you don't seem as concerned about her as you are about the minahelet finding out.
you need skills to bring your daughter closer to home. there are professionals to call.
you need to ingrain your daughter w/ a certain self worth so that she won't want to be talking to bummy boys.
she needs to have some sort of inherit value to feel some pride in herself so that she doesn't turn to others for that gratification.

just my 2 cents....

ChossidMom

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:39 am

ray family wrote:

amother wrote:

Idont knopw what to do. If the minahelet finds out she will be expelled from school. The boosha! - what should I do to stop her acting like this????

For someone without teens this is very insightful. Thumbs Up

The number one, most important thing is your relationship with your daughter and that this should not suffer no matter what. This whole topic is VERY close to home as I have daughter that age. Sometimes, I too "hate" her. This is normal for mothers of teenage girls. I work on this though. I work on myself and on appreciating her. A chinuch teacher of mine once said that if you have a particularly challenging child, make a list of all the things you love about this child and look at it often. Focus on the good. Lots of love (and authority) is in order. And it's such a hard age to love.... But we need to look past all the "stuff" and remember how much we love them.

amother

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 8:07 am

phew chossidmom you really know how to sockit to'em!
OK you are right about the points you mentioned.
1. Bat Mitzvah parties - none are allowed by the school but everyone does them anyway - basically the whole class.
2. SHe is allowed out on Friday nights aslong as she stays on our street which she does, or if its been prearranged to go to a home of a friend that I know.
3. PCs - I check her email acct every so often - all is ok there, and its used for communicating with parents in chutz la'aretz, and now that she is banned from using the pc, I feel bad for the grandparents as they simply do not phone ever (maybe once every 3 months) OK we'll deal with that.
4. What does everyon do then when their kid comes home with a good score on a test? It needs some recognition that the kid worked hard and achieved a good score, I think.
But I agree we need to do some kind of shake up to the current parenting situation. I will speak to our rav this week.
To another poster - yes we sat down had a long talk about EVERYTHING when this happened the first time, which is why I am shocked it happened again. We mamash discussed lots of things/feelings.
Yes I will have to get over the boosha if she gets thrown out of school....
Strangle does not equal anger - its more frustration. having teens is frustrating, I dont get angry, its not a middah I have. But anyone who has tenns knows how frustrating it can be trying to stay on top of all their needs and wants and troubles.

ChossidMom

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 8:26 am

amother wrote:

I would stick to YOU calling the grandparents. I pay 10 agorot a minute to the U.S. through bezek beinleumi nowadays. She shouldn't have unsupervised time on the computer no matter how many internet filters you have (I'm saying this because she is a BY girl).

Quote:

4. What does everyon do then when their kid comes home with a good score on a test? It needs some recognition that the kid worked hard and achieved a good score, I think.

I reward for effort and not for results. If I see my daughter spent x hours really studying well for a test, I give her a chocolate bar (because that's what does it for her) before the test. No rewarding for grades. That was drummed into me years ago.

Quote:

But I agree we need to do some kind of shake up to the current parenting situation. I will speak to our rav this week.
To another poster - yes we sat down had a long talk about EVERYTHING when this happened the first time, which is why I am shocked it happened again. We mamash discussed lots of things/feelings.
Yes I will have to get over the boosha if she gets thrown out of school....
Strangle does not equal anger - its more frustration. having teens is frustrating, I dont get angry, its not a middah I have. But anyone who has tenns knows how frustrating it can be trying to stay on top of all their needs and wants and troubles.

A few weeks ago our school called in the mothers of 6th, 7th and 8th grades and had an 8th grade teacher give us "the talk" about seminars. Your daughter has to know that depending on where she wants to get accepted - certain behaviors are expected. In my town, if girls are seen congregating outside at night, their chances of getting into the local seminar are very, very slim. Same goes for watching any kind of movie or using a computer for anything other than Word or Graphics. So, my daughter, who loves to go to shuk Ramle Lod at Tzomet Shilat doesn't do it anymore because she knows it can ruin her chances of getting into a good school.

I'm socking it to you, amother, because I CARE. Otherwise I wouldn't bother spending the time.
Get her on your team but be a parent! Set down rules! Don't be afraid of incurring her wrath. I read that so many parents are relaxing control because they are afraid that their kids will go "off the derech". Couldn't be further from the truth. Kids need authority. I'm not saying to choke them. Of course they need a certain amount of freedom. But rules have to be laid down and followed.

Believe me - we are all in the same boat. May Hashem give us all the koach and guidance we need to guide our children properly.

Yocheved84

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 12:45 pm

EVERY teenager has done this--ok, well, a lot of teens. (Mine was "Yeah mom, I just got to school and am off to study hall" and in the background was the Metro North train speaker saying "Next Stop, Grand Central." Rightt...)

My point is that while she broke your rules, I don't think this is the end of the world. Just make it darn clear that this is the last time a stunt like this will be tolerated. Also, is this boy living with his parents? You and your DH need to go over there and tell the boy and his family that they are not to speak or interact with your 13 year old daughter. Tell them that if the son approaches your kids, that you will know and call the police.

Seriously--put fear into him. Girls are easily sucked in by the flirting/attention, even if they are good kids who dont' realize it. She is innocent--he's probably a bit messed up.

Sounds like you took care of her on your end for now with the grounding. Continue to keep a tight leash on her and also go after him. . .

Yocheved84

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 1:10 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

Yocheved84 wrote:

It might be more accurate to say she's not the only one who has done this. Just because you did it too, doesn't mean all or even most teens do these things. I think that is incorrect.

That's why I clarified it with "Well, a lot of teens." Either way, OP needs to know that she is not the only mother who has confronted this. If you'd like to split hairs, then I'll go over to your camp, as the nuanced point is appreciated.

OP--What I meant to say is that your daughter "is not the only one who has done this."

amother

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:01 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

amother wrote:

OP, if you are charedi, in a charedi area and your daughter attends BY, how is it that she goes walking on Friday night with her friends? I am assuming that you mean after the meal. All By's that I know discourage or downright assur girls going out walking on Friday nights after the meal. my almost 13 year old doesn't step foot outside my house on Friday night. We hang out together, playing games or whatever. leaving the house is not an option. All the at risk kids (for lack of a better term) are out on the main road in k.S. hanging out and co-ed shmoozing at that time.

Also, what's the story with Bat mitzva parties? your school allows Bat mitzva parties? our schools do not. only the party in school. No parties in halls or at home. This is to prevent jealousy.

Sounds to me like there may be some parental controls in order. We are not talking about an 18 year old. At this point, you should be able to exercise more control.

Another point - the internet/email thing is a very slippery slope. My daughter is not allowed near my computer.And yet another point - not a great idea to reward good grades. Very not educational.

My opinion - more parental control otherwise you may lose control completely. And all the 'educational' videos won't help then. Why is a 13 year old BY girl watching videos? The schools completely assur them. So now she has to lie in school if they ever ask her if she watches videos?

How. utterly. stiffling.

amother

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:18 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

Yeah. I was waiting for a response like that.

That's why I'm surprised OP didn't post this in the Charedi section.

Im sorry I didnt mean offense but I am seriously catching my breath.

I really admire charedi communities (I myself am pretty standard orthodox, go to a yeshivish shul, etc) and I really also admire chasidic thought and practice (I happen to think Chabad does amazing work and are angels of Hashem... I know they are not typical of chasidim). Whenever I think about what schools to send my children to (theyre very little now) and how to shape my family, Ive always been driven to become more and more frum. But when I see stuff like that I just know it isnt for me, and I wonder how it is for anyone. I love the essence but just cannot deal with all the peripheral stuff. Though I am in a right wing atmosphere we really dont appreciate what goes on the the hard core charedi world.

amother

Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:19 pm

Okay sounds like me - I went to a very frum H.S. met a cute guy who lived right near by who was a drop out and do you know what we did this might shock you! All we did was talk - it was a friend of mine's brother and we had a great time talking to each other - I didn't have a lot of friends in school and I needed someone to speak to and he was a drop out and was a "neighborhood kid" so we talked, my mom mentioned something to me once but I knew where I came from and I knew where I was going. He knew there were boundries and although we did flirt a little - it really wasn't that much nothing happened. We really had a great time talking. I knew there was no future I was 16 at the time but sometimes girls feel a void and need someone that understands them to speak to.

I would say explain to your daughter about the world out there in a nice and caring way when you are both calm, don't "forbid" anything it will make it worse just show her in a positive way the proper derech teach her all you can now.

If you keep forbidding different things it will make matters worse and she will go the other way C"V. Show her love, give her lots of attention, say a lot of tehilim.