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-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
ChossidMom
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 Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:24 pm
Well, amother, let me tell you that I lived in the other, more modern world. Spent a large part of my life as a "worldly" orthodox person and am now in a different world.
Not only do I not feel stifled but I welcome the opportunity to bring my children up without all the cr*p that I was exposed to. My children won't use words like cr*p and won't have an indelible picture in their mind of Debra Winger and Richard Gere making out in An Officer and a Gentleman, seen at age 18. My children will BE"H be pure and unsullied from all the "worldly" stuff that I was exposed to. And it's no mean feat in today's internetty world.
But, I can tell you - so far so good. I don't want any ayin haras, but my kids are looking good. They're on a great path and may Hashem continue to help me to help them along this path.
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 2:53 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | Well, amother, let me tell you that I lived in the other, more modern world. Spent a large part of my life as a "worldly" orthodox person and am now in a different world.
Not only do I not feel stifled but I welcome the opportunity to bring my children up without all the cr*p that I was exposed to. My children won't use words like cr*p and won't have an indelible picture in their mind of Debra Winger and Richard Gere making out in An Officer and a Gentleman, seen at age 18. My children will BE"H be pure and unsullied from all the "worldly" stuff that I was exposed to. And it's no mean feat in today's internetty world.
But, I can tell you - so far so good. I don't want any ayin haras, but my kids are looking good. They're on a great path and may Hashem continue to help me to help them along this path. |
Amen. May Hashem help all of our kids to continue on their great paths.
You seem to have a lot of disdain for the "other" more "worldly" orthodox world, that I just dont have. I dont use the word 'cr*p' and I actually didnt even grow up orthodox. And I know many people in the "less worldly" charedi world that have horribly foul mouths (yeshiva bochurs arent always known for having the best language, both gramatically, and in terms of cursing, you know).
Im not sure who Debra Winger is and I dont know that scene from that movie. Is it so obscene? Because your kids will see magazine pics of people kissing and billboards and people on the subway. There's no escaping that.
You can raise children with absolutely sublime s-xual values without being charedi or even frum. I was not raised orthodox and I never had a boyfriend or did so much as kiss a boy before my chuppah. Fear of the "world" is not what drives me to become more and more frum, and I do not relate to that mentality. Those values come from home, from parents.
Maybe sheltetering them to what I see as an abnormal extreme (a school that assurs its girls from walking friday night?!?! dictating homelife???) will also go a long way in ensuring they have these values also (if it does not backfire) but doesnt it come at such a huge price??? (no parties. no walking. no computer. no stepping outside the house after the meal).
By way of analogy of taking something to its logical extreme (not in order to offend), locking your daughters in a basement until the chuppah will ENSURE no "tainting" from the outside world, but it is a heavy price to pay giving up perfectly fine experiences in the process.
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ChossidMom
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 3:07 pm
| amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | Well, amother, let me tell you that I lived in the other, more modern world. Spent a large part of my life as a "worldly" orthodox person and am now in a different world.
Not only do I not feel stifled but I welcome the opportunity to bring my children up without all the cr*p that I was exposed to. My children won't use words like cr*p and won't have an indelible picture in their mind of Debra Winger and Richard Gere making out in An Officer and a Gentleman, seen at age 18. My children will BE"H be pure and unsullied from all the "worldly" stuff that I was exposed to. And it's no mean feat in today's internetty world.
But, I can tell you - so far so good. I don't want any ayin haras, but my kids are looking good. They're on a great path and may Hashem continue to help me to help them along this path. |
Amen. May Hashem help all of our kids to continue on their great paths.
You seem to have a lot of disdain for the "other" more "worldly" orthodox world, that I just dont have. I dont use the word 'cr*p' and I actually didnt even grow up orthodox. And I know many people in the "less worldly" charedi world that have horribly foul mouths (yeshiva bochurs arent always known for having the best language, both gramatically, and in terms of cursing, you know).
Im not sure who Debra Winger is and I dont know that scene from that movie. Is it so obscene? Because your kids will see magazine pics of people kissing and billboards and people on the subway. There's no escaping that.
You can raise children with absolutely sublime s-xual values without being charedi or even frum. I was not raised orthodox and I never had a boyfriend or did so much as kiss a boy before my chuppah. Fear of the "world" is not what drives me to become more and more frum, and I do not relate to that mentality. Those values come from home, from parents.
Maybe sheltetering them to what I see as an abnormal extreme (a school that assurs its girls from walking friday night?!?! dictating homelife???) will also go a long way in ensuring they have these values also (if it does not backfire) but doesnt it come at such a huge price??? (no parties. no walking. no computer. no stepping outside the house after the meal).
By way of analogy of taking something to its logical extreme (not in order to offend), locking your daughters in a basement until the chuppah will ENSURE no "tainting" from the outside world, but it is a heavy price to pay giving up perfectly fine experiences in the process. |
Amother, You probably haven't been around here for very long cause you sure don't know me.
You don't have a clue what my life is like and what my family life is like. I don't need to lock my kids in the basement. We don't travel on subways here. We live in a Charedi enclave but my kids do go to secular cities and have seen many secular women in various states of (un)dress.
The Charedi lifestyle is much more sheltered than the non charedi lifestyle and I like that just fine.
My kids will IY"H not be exposed to television, movies and internet. If this is what you call "stifling" I'm totally wondering exactly who you are and how you can consider yourself "yeshivish" (you did say something to that effect in your post). Something doesn't jive here. Even the most avid MO posters didn't jump in and tell me that I'm stifling my kids. That's because they know what the Charedi lifestyle is like and why we choose to protect our children (even if they disagree with it). You seem to be in lala land regarding Chareidi lifestyle.
They also know ME.
And, no, my kids do not see magazine pictures of people kissing since we read Hamodia and Mishpacha and do not bring Good Housekeeping, Glamour, Cosmo etc. into our house.
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shanie5
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 4:21 pm
In regards to threatening to call the police on the boy-for what reason-he was talking to a chareidi girl? unless u r reporting him to the 'chareidi police' they will laugh you out of the station.
op-work with your dd thru love-not threats. the only way she will talk to u about her life and feelings is if she believes u believe in her. unconditional love is the key.
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 4:35 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | Well, amother, let me tell you that I lived in the other, more modern world. Spent a large part of my life as a "worldly" orthodox person and am now in a different world.
Not only do I not feel stifled but I welcome the opportunity to bring my children up without all the cr*p that I was exposed to. My children won't use words like cr*p and won't have an indelible picture in their mind of Debra Winger and Richard Gere making out in An Officer and a Gentleman, seen at age 18. My children will BE"H be pure and unsullied from all the "worldly" stuff that I was exposed to. And it's no mean feat in today's internetty world.
But, I can tell you - so far so good. I don't want any ayin haras, but my kids are looking good. They're on a great path and may Hashem continue to help me to help them along this path. |
Amen. May Hashem help all of our kids to continue on their great paths.
You seem to have a lot of disdain for the "other" more "worldly" orthodox world, that I just dont have. I dont use the word 'cr*p' and I actually didnt even grow up orthodox. And I know many people in the "less worldly" charedi world that have horribly foul mouths (yeshiva bochurs arent always known for having the best language, both gramatically, and in terms of cursing, you know).
Im not sure who Debra Winger is and I dont know that scene from that movie. Is it so obscene? Because your kids will see magazine pics of people kissing and billboards and people on the subway. There's no escaping that.
You can raise children with absolutely sublime s-xual values without being charedi or even frum. I was not raised orthodox and I never had a boyfriend or did so much as kiss a boy before my chuppah. Fear of the "world" is not what drives me to become more and more frum, and I do not relate to that mentality. Those values come from home, from parents.
Maybe sheltetering them to what I see as an abnormal extreme (a school that assurs its girls from walking friday night?!?! dictating homelife???) will also go a long way in ensuring they have these values also (if it does not backfire) but doesnt it come at such a huge price??? (no parties. no walking. no computer. no stepping outside the house after the meal).
By way of analogy of taking something to its logical extreme (not in order to offend), locking your daughters in a basement until the chuppah will ENSURE no "tainting" from the outside world, but it is a heavy price to pay giving up perfectly fine experiences in the process. |
Amother, You probably haven't been around here for very long cause you sure don't know me.
You don't have a clue what my life is like and what my family life is like. I don't need to lock my kids in the basement. We don't travel on subways here. We live in a Charedi enclave but my kids do go to secular cities and have seen many secular women in various states of (un)dress.
The Charedi lifestyle is much more sheltered than the non charedi lifestyle and I like that just fine.
My kids will IY"H not be exposed to television, movies and internet. If this is what you call "stifling" I'm totally wondering exactly who you are and how you can consider yourself "yeshivish" (you did say something to that effect in your post). Something doesn't jive here. Even the most avid MO posters didn't jump in and tell me that I'm stifling my kids. That's because they know what the Charedi lifestyle is like and why we choose to protect our children (even if they disagree with it). You seem to be in lala land regarding Chareidi lifestyle.
They also know ME.
And, no, my kids do not see magazine pictures of people kissing since we read Hamodia and Mishpacha and do not bring Good Housekeeping, Glamour, Cosmo etc. into our house. |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit. Yes, a lot of frum mainstream orthodox people would consider the things you mentioned stifling. Is that surprising to you?????? If so maybe you are in lala land about how others may perceive what you do. As for me, I said I am mainstream Orthodox and we go to a yeshivish shul. So we fit right in there somewhere. If it is relevant I can share more, but rest assured nothing "doesnt jive" here, Im a regular frum woman.
I understand why you got defensive but I wasnt at all "jumping in to tell you that you're stifling your kids". Most of your post was actually about what you know about BY schools, NOT about your own family... and that is what I was mostly responding to. In fact, judging my your screen name, if anything, Id assume your kids are NOT part of the BY world so it was most certainly not an attack on you. It was actually not an attack on anyone.. it was an honest to goodness shock on my part to hear it so blatantly put by a mother herself that this is what is imposed by the schools. In my constant quest to become a better Jew I look at communities around me and it just sometimes hits me in the face that those that I most identify with in some ways, or strive towards, are most foreign and unsettling to me in others.
Look, halavi this is our only argument. Id much prefer the whole Jewish world be exactly like you (whatever that is) than c'v like the huge portion of non-Torah Jews today. Im ecstatic there are such devoted Jews (and I mean all communities of Torah observant Jews) and let's just leave it at that.
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ChossidMom
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 4:56 pm
| amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now.
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:05 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now. |
There's no way I can continuously assure you I am speaking in earnest and dont mean to offend. You did question my frumkeit "something doesnt jive, etc" Saying I live in lala land or am clueless doesnt help anything. If saying I wish the whole Jewish world could be exactly like you doesnt show I am not trying to be judgmental than I dont know what does. But not a kind word from you. I dont see a problem sharing ideas even if we disagree. I dont like that you implied my world is "impure" and "tainted" but so what? Thats what discussions are for as long as respectful. Why do you need a charedi forum if you live in such an enclave as you put it? Why is it so unsettling to hear others take issue with certain things, as you do as well? All I know is usually when people are actually very secure in how they choose to live, they dont get so defensive and antagonistic.
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ChossidMom
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:17 pm
| amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now. |
There's no way I can continuously assure you I am speaking in earnest and dont mean to offend. You did question my frumkeit "something doesnt jive, etc" Saying I live in lala land or am clueless doesnt help anything. If saying I wish the whole Jewish world could be exactly like you doesnt show I am not trying to be judgmental than I dont know what does. But not a kind word from you. I dont see a problem sharing ideas even if we disagree. I dont like that you implied my world is "impure" and "tainted" but so what? Thats what discussions are for as long as respectful. Why do you need a charedi forum if you live in such an enclave as you put it? Why is it so unsettling to hear others take issue with certain things, as you do as well? All I know is usually when people are actually very secure in how they choose to live, they dont get so defensive and antagonistic. |
I take everything back and apologize for offending you.
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:37 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now. |
There's no way I can continuously assure you I am speaking in earnest and dont mean to offend. You did question my frumkeit "something doesnt jive, etc" Saying I live in lala land or am clueless doesnt help anything. If saying I wish the whole Jewish world could be exactly like you doesnt show I am not trying to be judgmental than I dont know what does. But not a kind word from you. I dont see a problem sharing ideas even if we disagree. I dont like that you implied my world is "impure" and "tainted" but so what? Thats what discussions are for as long as respectful. Why do you need a charedi forum if you live in such an enclave as you put it? Why is it so unsettling to hear others take issue with certain things, as you do as well? All I know is usually when people are actually very secure in how they choose to live, they dont get so defensive and antagonistic. |
I take everything back and apologize for offending you. |
 Thanks
(I think, though Im not sure if that was sarcastic. I think Ill choose to think not). And as I said earlier, I do as well.
Well...sigh... Ill pm you to laugh together when in a decade or so from now, B'h., ba'h, we have decided to send DD undoubtedly to some BY high school. 
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:40 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | phew chossidmom you really know how to sockit to'em!
OK you are right about the points you mentioned.
1. Bat Mitzvah parties - none are allowed by the school but everyone does them anyway - basically the whole class.
2. SHe is allowed out on Friday nights aslong as she stays on our street which she does, or if its been prearranged to go to a home of a friend that I know.
3. PCs - I check her email acct every so often - all is ok there, and its used for communicating with parents in chutz la'aretz, and now that she is banned from using the pc, I feel bad for the grandparents as they simply do not phone ever (maybe once every 3 months) OK we'll deal with that. |
I would stick to YOU calling the grandparents. I pay 10 agorot a minute to the U.S. through bezek beinleumi nowadays. She shouldn't have unsupervised time on the computer no matter how many internet filters you have (I'm saying this because she is a BY girl).
| Quote: |
4. What does everyon do then when their kid comes home with a good score on a test? It needs some recognition that the kid worked hard and achieved a good score, I think. |
I reward for effort and not for results. If I see my daughter spent x hours really studying well for a test, I give her a chocolate bar (because that's what does it for her) before the test. No rewarding for grades. That was drummed into me years ago.
| Quote: |
But I agree we need to do some kind of shake up to the current parenting situation. I will speak to our rav this week.
To another poster - yes we sat down had a long talk about EVERYTHING when this happened the first time, which is why I am shocked it happened again. We mamash discussed lots of things/feelings.
Yes I will have to get over the boosha if she gets thrown out of school....
Strangle does not equal anger - its more frustration. having teens is frustrating, I dont get angry, its not a middah I have. But anyone who has tenns knows how frustrating it can be trying to stay on top of all their needs and wants and troubles. |
A few weeks ago our school called in the mothers of 6th, 7th and 8th grades and had an 8th grade teacher give us "the talk" about seminars. Your daughter has to know that depending on where she wants to get accepted - certain behaviors are expected. In my town, if girls are seen congregating outside at night, their chances of getting into the local seminar are very, very slim. Same goes for watching any kind of movie or using a computer for anything other than Word or Graphics. So, my daughter, who loves to go to shuk Ramle Lod at Tzomet Shilat doesn't do it anymore because she knows it can ruin her chances of getting into a good school.
I'm socking it to you, amother, because I CARE. Otherwise I wouldn't bother spending the time.
Get her on your team but be a parent! Set down rules! Don't be afraid of incurring her wrath. I read that so many parents are relaxing control because they are afraid that their kids will go "off the derech". Couldn't be further from the truth. Kids need authority. I'm not saying to choke them. Of course they need a certain amount of freedom. But rules have to be laid down and followed.
Believe me - we are all in the same boat. May Hashem give us all the koach and guidance we need to guide our children properly. |
grandparents - dont get me started....they call the kids or email them. We call them thru Skype for free if we have to - still involves the pc.
Now about rewards- I bedafka do not reward with food - my shitta is to reward with non food prizes- we all know how it can impact upon later life (and waists) when we reward with food! She was rewarded for putting in effort to learn, and a good grade. There was nothing wrong with her staying out later for that reason (if she really had been inside the hall).
I know the talk about the seminars- she isnt my oldest dd, I already have one in a good seminar. This dd wants me to send her to Beit Shulamit though!!!! I actually dont think she knows what she is asking for, and is only asking because a friend of hers is going.
I am not scared oflaying down rules and auhority (atleast I dont think I am) but I dont want to stiffle them till they pop anyway. That is not what being frum is about. Yes they watch movies that I approve - so does the whole school. If really none of the other kids watched then I would not allow, but half her friends even have a facebook account (I dont let).
Amen to your last sentance, and I appeciate your time in responding. Me and dd spoke some more today and I alsotold her about the above amother who said her life was messed up because she did the same thing. I hope she understood, she said she did, even if she doesnt agree.
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amother
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 5:40 pm
| ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | phew chossidmom you really know how to sockit to'em!
OK you are right about the points you mentioned.
1. Bat Mitzvah parties - none are allowed by the school but everyone does them anyway - basically the whole class.
2. SHe is allowed out on Friday nights aslong as she stays on our street which she does, or if its been prearranged to go to a home of a friend that I know.
3. PCs - I check her email acct every so often - all is ok there, and its used for communicating with parents in chutz la'aretz, and now that she is banned from using the pc, I feel bad for the grandparents as they simply do not phone ever (maybe once every 3 months) OK we'll deal with that. |
I would stick to YOU calling the grandparents. I pay 10 agorot a minute to the U.S. through bezek beinleumi nowadays. She shouldn't have unsupervised time on the computer no matter how many internet filters you have (I'm saying this because she is a BY girl).
| Quote: |
4. What does everyon do then when their kid comes home with a good score on a test? It needs some recognition that the kid worked hard and achieved a good score, I think. |
I reward for effort and not for results. If I see my daughter spent x hours really studying well for a test, I give her a chocolate bar (because that's what does it for her) before the test. No rewarding for grades. That was drummed into me years ago.
| Quote: |
But I agree we need to do some kind of shake up to the current parenting situation. I will speak to our rav this week.
To another poster - yes we sat down had a long talk about EVERYTHING when this happened the first time, which is why I am shocked it happened again. We mamash discussed lots of things/feelings.
Yes I will have to get over the boosha if she gets thrown out of school....
Strangle does not equal anger - its more frustration. having teens is frustrating, I dont get angry, its not a middah I have. But anyone who has tenns knows how frustrating it can be trying to stay on top of all their needs and wants and troubles. |
A few weeks ago our school called in the mothers of 6th, 7th and 8th grades and had an 8th grade teacher give us "the talk" about seminars. Your daughter has to know that depending on where she wants to get accepted - certain behaviors are expected. In my town, if girls are seen congregating outside at night, their chances of getting into the local seminar are very, very slim. Same goes for watching any kind of movie or using a computer for anything other than Word or Graphics. So, my daughter, who loves to go to shuk Ramle Lod at Tzomet Shilat doesn't do it anymore because she knows it can ruin her chances of getting into a good school.
I'm socking it to you, amother, because I CARE. Otherwise I wouldn't bother spending the time.
Get her on your team but be a parent! Set down rules! Don't be afraid of incurring her wrath. I read that so many parents are relaxing control because they are afraid that their kids will go "off the derech". Couldn't be further from the truth. Kids need authority. I'm not saying to choke them. Of course they need a certain amount of freedom. But rules have to be laid down and followed.
Believe me - we are all in the same boat. May Hashem give us all the koach and guidance we need to guide our children properly. |
grandparents - dont get me started....they call the kids or email them. We call them thru Skype for free if we have to - still involves the pc.
Now about rewards- I bedafka do not reward with food - my shitta is to reward with non food prizes- we all know how it can impact upon later life (and waists) when we reward with food! She was rewarded for putting in effort to learn, and a good grade. There was nothing wrong with her staying out later for that reason (if she really had been inside the hall).
I know the talk about the seminars- she isnt my oldest dd, I already have one in a good seminar. This dd wants me to send her to Beit Shulamit though!!!! I actually dont think she knows what she is asking for, and is only asking because a friend of hers is going.
I am not scared oflaying down rules and auhority (atleast I dont think I am) but I dont want to stiffle them till they pop anyway. That is not what being frum is about. Yes they watch movies that I approve - so does the whole school. If really none of the other kids watched then I would not allow, but half her friends even have a facebook account (I dont let).
Amen to your last sentance, and I appeciate your time in responding. Me and dd spoke some more today and I alsotold her about the above amother who said her life was messed up because she did the same thing. I hope she understood, she said she did, even if she doesnt agree.
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Merrymom
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Wed, Oct 27 2010, 11:36 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When a girl acts out with boys that is not the norm for her circle, it almost always has something to do with the relationship with her father. This doesn't mean her father is a bad person but maybe he doesn't spend much time with her, doesn't compliment her and so forth.
Make sure your DH takes out your daughter at least once a week for the next few months and compliments her every Shabbos on how beautiful she looks. Girls need male attention.
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mommalah
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Thu, Oct 28 2010, 12:58 am
| Merrymom wrote: | I've said it before and I'll say it again. When a girl acts out with boys that is not the norm for her circle, it almost always has something to do with the relationship with her father. This doesn't mean her father is a bad person but maybe he doesn't spend much time with her, doesn't compliment her and so forth.
Make sure your DH takes out your daughter at least once a week for the next few months and compliments her every Shabbos on how beautiful she looks. Girls need male attention. |
Right on! If a girl gets regular attention from her father, she won't jump when the first boy tells her she's pretty. If he regularly tells her how beautiful (and smart) she is, she'll be secure in herself.
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ABC
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Thu, Oct 28 2010, 5:58 am
| amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now. |
There's no way I can continuously assure you I am speaking in earnest and dont mean to offend. You did question my frumkeit "something doesnt jive, etc" Saying I live in lala land or am clueless doesnt help anything. If saying I wish the whole Jewish world could be exactly like you doesnt show I am not trying to be judgmental than I dont know what does. But not a kind word from you. I dont see a problem sharing ideas even if we disagree. I dont like that you implied my world is "impure" and "tainted" but so what? Thats what discussions are for as long as respectful. Why do you need a charedi forum if you live in such an enclave as you put it? Why is it so unsettling to hear others take issue with certain things, as you do as well? All I know is usually when people are actually very secure in how they choose to live, they dont get so defensive and antagonistic. |
Dear amother above
I think you handled the above discussion beautifully. Kol hakovod to you for responding so respectfully to someone that responded to you with such disdain. 
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amother
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Thu, Oct 28 2010, 12:55 pm
| ABC wrote: | | amother wrote: | | ChossidMom wrote: | | amother wrote: |
Okay, your anger is misplaced, and you didnt really respond to what I said at all.
First of all, I was not claiming I know you... That is besides the point. You dont know me either, do you? You sort of stated my point for me when you said that your kids travel to secuar cities and see all sorts of women. My only point was just that- children will see things, even if not in An Officer and a Gentleman.
My point about locking girls in a basement was pretty clear (and I clearly said I was making a point by analogy, not meaning to offend, and that is why I used an extreme example... I made it clear that I did not mean that you are doing the equivalent of locking a girl in the basement).
Please dont get so personal here and tell me I am living in lala land and question my frumkeit.
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I didn't question your frumkeit. I was under the impression that you were yeshivish and was merely surprised that you are questioning many yeshivish hanhagos.
You ARE very clearly in lala land (or clueless) as to the Israeli Charedi lifestyle. This is precisely the reason that I am very pleased that the Charedi forum opened up. So that people like myself can converse with a Charedi OP without getting into a whole discussion with posters like you that question and judge our derech. Frankly, I find it very unsettling carrying on a conversation like this with an anonymous poster so I'll have to bid you adieu for now. |
There's no way I can continuously assure you I am speaking in earnest and dont mean to offend. You did question my frumkeit "something doesnt jive, etc" Saying I live in lala land or am clueless doesnt help anything. If saying I wish the whole Jewish world could be exactly like you doesnt show I am not trying to be judgmental than I dont know what does. But not a kind word from you. I dont see a problem sharing ideas even if we disagree. I dont like that you implied my world is "impure" and "tainted" but so what? Thats what discussions are for as long as respectful. Why do you need a charedi forum if you live in such an enclave as you put it? Why is it so unsettling to hear others take issue with certain things, as you do as well? All I know is usually when people are actually very secure in how they choose to live, they dont get so defensive and antagonistic. |
Dear amother above
I think you handled the above discussion beautifully. Kol hakovod to you for responding so respectfully to someone that responded to you with such disdain. |
Wow honestly thank you ABC.. I was beginning to think I was beig disgusting without realizing it. Then I thought "wow I wish all Jews cared this much to argue over different derechs!" Thanks, really, for your feedback.
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superjew
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Thu, Oct 28 2010, 1:03 pm
| kitov wrote: | | the world's best mom wrote: |
I've heard that when your child deserves a hug the least, that's when she needs it the most.. |
I very much like this line. |
This line made me cry. Its soo true. Wish more ppl followed this 
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superjew
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Thu, Oct 28 2010, 1:08 pm
| mommalah wrote: | | Merrymom wrote: | I've said it before and I'll say it again. When a girl acts out with boys that is not the norm for her circle, it almost always has something to do with the relationship with her father. This doesn't mean her father is a bad person but maybe he doesn't spend much time with her, doesn't compliment her and so forth.
Make sure your DH takes out your daughter at least once a week for the next few months and compliments her every Shabbos on how beautiful she looks. Girls need male attention. |
Right on! If a girl gets regular attention from her father, she won't jump when the first boy tells her she's pretty. If he regularly tells her how beautiful (and smart) she is, she'll be secure in herself. |
 I wish my father knew this. Im an only girl & never got this from him, hence me running after boys. Thank god I have an awesome mother & didnt make any silly mistakes, but I yearned for that male attention.
B'H maturity stepped in pretty fast & I'm long over this step in life. 
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