sub forum for imamothers losing their emunah

MrsDash

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 9:53 pm

I'm game

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 9:59 pm

amother wrote:

marina wrote:

Yael is not my biggest fan... it might be better coming from someone else. But if there's no one else willing, I can try.

you dont like Yael?

I think she is saying that Yael doesnt like her not that she doesnt like Yael

OOH. ok

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:02 pm

amother wrote:

PinkFridge wrote:

I wonder what it would be like:
-People reassuring each other that it's ok and maybe healthy to be disillusioned with some sort of exit stuff going on
-If open, other people contributing and being perceived as sanctimonious and lots of flam ing
-If open, other people just checking it out, thinking maybe there will be some good chizuk for those "yemei hasina" we all experience, some of us more than others

For the people who want it, can you expand a bit more as to what you see it growing into, what you want it to grow into and what you want to get out of it?

I want it because im in pain.

I got married when I was a teenager straight out of seminary who thought I knew exactly what I wanted. now a few years later I look at my life and im not really happy. I have many problems with the jewish community, with the way I am living my life, and how I am raising my children.

and the saddest part is that I have no choice anymore. im stuck.

I really want to talk freely with other women who feel the way I do. I want to not be labeled as an apikores because I have opinions that arent in line with mainstream orthodoxy. I want to vent how I really feel without having to censer what I say because pple will attack me. I dont want to be told that the solution to my issues are to read "permission to believe" or some similar book.

I want to know how other mothers answer their kids when they ask them questions about the torah. how do you respond one way when you truly dont believe what you are saying?

I just want support and to know that im not the only one out there. and I want support from those who understand. not from pple who are filled with contentment with judaism.

My kids are still little, but I try to answer as real as possible. So if they ask a question that can be answered "It comes from Hashem" or "The farmer grows the wheat and cuts it down" or whatever I use the latter.

If its about more hashkafa? I would find the least apikorusy way to state it. I agreed to raise my kids frum, so I will. But its not always easy.

Mommastuff

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:22 pm

How about making it a "chizuk on emunah" thread? Instead of just venting or playing devils advocate, you can go here for chizuk. You can ask questions/doubts/whatever and you can bounce off ideas to the poster on how to "fill their void" or whatnot.

In short: have the thread focused on answers, not questions; finding emunah, not lacking it.

marina

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:26 pm

I answer according to how I am supposed to answer. I keep what I think to myself for the most part. Occasionally, I will slip in about how there are different opinions on this (ex. how old the world is) but that is rare.

But I have my limits too and it is *very* frustrating not to be able to say hello, maybe the sun and the moon did not actually have a literal conversation, maybe it is a parable.

Anyway, Yael tolerates me here and that's about it, so if there is someone else who can ask, that's probably a better way to go. If not, I will ask but don't expect anything of it Smile

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:34 pm

marina wrote:

If your child is ready to hear it then why can't you tell her/him that it's a parable? and if not then how is it any different from telling them any other age appropriate repsonse?

sequoia

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:39 pm

marina wrote:

But I have my limits too and it is *very* frustrating not to be able to say hello, maybe the sun and the moon did not actually have a literal conversation, maybe it is a parable.

Huh?

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:43 pm

sequoia wrote:

marina wrote:

But I have my limits too and it is *very* frustrating not to be able to say hello, maybe the sun and the moon did not actually have a literal conversation, maybe it is a parable.

Huh?

she's referring to the medrash regarding what happened on the fourth day of creation, how the sun and moon were originally the same size, the moon complained that two kings cannot wear the same crown so Hashem diminished the size of the moon but gave him that stars. Is this what you were asking?

sequoia

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:46 pm

But the medrash isn't *meant* to be taken literally.

shnitzel

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:49 pm

You learn it literally in school.

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:49 pm

sequoia wrote:

But the medrash isn't *meant* to be taken literally.

Tell that to the Bais Yaakov I went to. But again, it depends on the age of the child, a 4 year old is going to learn this literally and rightfully so (along with all the other black and white characterizations), an older child should be taught the lesson behind the story and why chazal brought down this particular parable to teach it. Some schools cover this level very rarely and I think it's a great disservice to many of their students.

pearswood12

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:49 pm

I would be very interested to talk to others about my feelings too. I've had so many disussions with rabbonim and others but I still lay awake at night fighting and arguing with myself Question

HindaRochel

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:52 pm

I'll ask Yael.

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:53 pm

Deleted.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 31 2015, 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:53 pm

im very very interested as well. I know that hashem is out there but have loads of questions.

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:56 pm

Deleted.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 31 2015, 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

marina

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 10:57 pm

Quote:

If your child is ready to hear it then why can't you tell her/him that it's a parable?

Because that's not what I signed up for, apparently. Apparently I signed up for a system in which these medrashim are taken literally.

sequoia

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 11:00 pm

Sorry, but that's not an emunah problem. That's a problem of being in the wrong community (for you).

I mean, I'm questioning basic things like is Hashem good and omnipotent...

marina

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 11:02 pm

please, that's not the only question I have Smile

We were discussing how we answer children. And I was sharing a frustrating episode.

If we ever get this forum, we can discuss greater issues than a medrash.

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 11:15 pm

let me get this straight- this would be a forum where we can ask questions about things which we were raised to take for granted and not only would we not be attacked, but we might actually be able to talk out our issues?
when I was in high school, I had lots of questions, starting with how do you know g-d really exists? the answer I was given by my oh so brilliant teacher was "if youre asking such a question you shouldnt be in by."
at this point I dont know if I have emunah and bitachon or not. I dont actively question things really, but its just not so much a part of my life. I dont daven every day, I dont always remember to daven with my kids or wash their hands in the morning. im terrible at saying brachos with my son. half the time I dont bentch after I wash because I dont do it right away and then I get distracted and forget. I dont really feel a connection to g-d.
that is really starting to scare me though, because I was always taught that our relationship with our children is reflective of our relationship wth Him. im not really sure how that works though.....