Nittel on Friday nite?

rosehill

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 9:36 am

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

For some reason there are those who think that Nittel is a chassidishe minhag when actually it started way before the Baal Shem Tov and Chassidus. The question is why there are non-chassidim who don't keep it?

In the Old Country, it was dangerous to leave your home on Nittel Nacht, as there was the fear of inciting an angry mob. AFAIK, that is why people stopped learning on this night...so that they wouldn't have to go to ask the neighbor a question, or walk home alone from the Yeshiva. (I wonder if women refrained from going to the mikva on nittel nacht)

Your question is really a larger one. Why do some people continue keep minhagim when the reason for their origination no longer exists, while others pasken that once the reason is gone, the minhag too is ablished?

I would guess that Middle Eastern Jews never adopted this "minhag".

gryp

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 9:56 am

Quote:

The reason for not studying Torah on nittel-night,1 I heard from my father, is to avoid adding vitality.

My father once said: Those diligent students who begrudge those eight hours and cannot tear themselves away from study - I am not fond of them. This (abstaining from study) applies only until midnight.

http://www.chabad.org/dailystu...../2010

From the sefer Hayom Yom, written by the Lubav Rebbe.

freidasima

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 10:51 am

Rosehill you ask a good question but anyone who happens to have spent nittel in a polish village today knows that the reason for it is alive and well. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in such a place, known as a Jew, on nittel....there are still places in the so called civilized world where it isn't that wonderful to be a yid among non jews on nittel...hence there is still a good reason if it has to do with the pogrom (staying up until at least chatzos) because it can happen there again tomorrow.

As for the learning, those who say that they don't do it either for kabbalistic reasons or so that no one would think that it is in "his" zechus...well that reason hasn't ended, has it?

So if people keep it, it's not a minhog that's no long with any reason...the reason for part still exists (learning) and for the other (staying up), just depends where you are...and a good reminder that there are still many yidden in the deepest of Golus...

marina

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 10:57 am

GR wrote:

Quote:

http://www.chabad.org/dailystu...../2010

From the sefer Hayom Yom, written by the Lubav Rebbe.

Just having a discussion on FB about this w/someone. If we are worried about adding chayus to klippah, why would we ever have a chabad house in Las Vegas in the first place? Isn't the whole point of chassidus to counteract the effect of the klippos through elevating nitzotzos in the klippas nogah? Surely there are still klippas nogah nitzotzos that could be elevated even on nittel nacht?

rosehill

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:40 am

freidasima wrote:

So I would think that in those places where the risk remains, the minhag should remain. I wouldn't be too worried about a drunken Christian mob on the streets of Meah Shearim, though (which is where I was one Nittel when I first heard of this practice!!).

freidasima wrote:

As for the learning, those who say that they don't do it either for kabbalistic reasons or so that no one would think that it is in "his" zechus...well that reason hasn't ended, has it?

Why are we worried about "his" zchus?? Doesn't that give him power and legitimacy? Why do we not refrain from learning on Mohammed's birthday? Or the birthdays of the Hindu gods?

freidasima wrote:

...and a good reminder that there are still many yidden in the deepest of Golus...

Always worth remembering.

Raisin

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:44 am

the thing that doesn't make sense to me is keeping it on a day that is not applicable to your location. Nowadays x-mas is celebrated on 24th-25th. some people (russia? spain) still stick to keeping it on 6th of Jan. So if you live in a place where it is kept on the 25th, why would you keep nittel on the 6th of jan?

I mean these dates are all arbitary anyway, I don't think they really know for sure when watzisname was born.

marina

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:52 am

GR wrote:

The chayus that comes from learning Torah isn't the same as the chayus that comes from making brochos, davening, etc. It doesn't work the same way.

Can you elaborate?

I am mostly interested in the idea that at some point klippos just take over and the forces of good are powerless. Why wouldn't this apply to a shliach in Las Vegas? Why shouldn't he just say "hey, there are too many klippos here and I will be on my way" instead of opening his chabad house and having shiurim and gatherings etc, etc.? How is this different from nittel nacht? Why would learning Torah with say, a not-yet frum Jew, add to the chayus of the klippah on nittel nacht instead of counteracting it through kedusha?

shalhevet

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:00 pm

Am I allowed the same question as marina? I always learned "me'at mi haor" - a little light can dispel much darkness - kedusha can drive away tuma. If there is particular tuma that night (why, I'm not sure considering all the tuma in the world 24/7 nowadays), surely we need more Torah to drive it away, not less?

freidasima

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:02 pm

Raisin, someone I know who teaches history once said that what "really happened" doesn't matter, only what you think happens. So who cares when watshiszname was really born...it's only when people think that he was born that is important...

Rosehill, as for the Xtian mob in meah shearim, I kind of get what you mean, but then also why do the people living there wear 17th and 18th century clothing of the polish nobility or a mink tail on their hat reminder of the decree to wear a pig's tail which they exchanged for a lot of moolah to the local poritz to get mig and not pig....

PinkFridge

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:17 pm

shalhevet wrote:

That's why Hashem created Litvaks. The world's safe ;-)
Teiku.

Raisin

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:43 pm

freidasima wrote:

That is exactly my question. If I live in brooklyn or London and locally the non Jews observe the 25th pf december the fact that my grandfather lived in poland and there they keep it on a different day does not mean I should keep the polish nittel if I live in Brooklyn.

gryp

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:48 pm

marina wrote:

GR wrote:

The chayus that comes from learning Torah isn't the same as the chayus that comes from making brochos, davening, etc. It doesn't work the same way.

I'm going to ask before I answer since I want to be sure I'm posting accurately.

sequoia

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:54 pm

Raisin wrote:

In all Eastern Orthodox countries x-mas is January 7th. Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc. Same for Eastern Orthodox communities in Lebanon and such.

rosehill

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 1:25 pm

freidasima wrote:

Rosehill, as for the Xtian mob in meah shearim, I kind of get what you mean, but then also why do the people living there wear 17th and 18th century clothing of the polish nobility or a mink tail on their hat reminder of the decree to wear a pig's tail which they exchanged for a lot of moolah to the local poritz to get mig and not pig....

You can probably guess what I think about that!!! We've gone there on other threads.... Wink

PinkFridge

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:29 pm

Very serious question, and by now people know where I'm coming from so I'm not trying to start up with anyone.
From the non-Chassidish side, it seems very strange but we respect it.
From the side of the nittel observers, I wonder, do they look at us as if we're messing it up by contributing to the tuma, and if only we would see the light and not learn, etc. for that period?