Guests lit shabbos candles in their bedroom!!!

amother

Sat, Dec 25 2010, 11:49 pm

A neighbor of mine asked me to host some guest for shabbos, who would only sleep by me they would go to her for meals. I said no problem, I have plenty of room. I prepared extra candles for her downstairs where I always light in my DR. I was showering when they came so my DD showed them their room. I didn't meet my guest till Right before shabbos, when I asked her if she wants to light as I pointed to the dining room. She said it was her minhag to light early so she lit already. She was leaving then to her friend so I gave her my combination that she could let herself in later.

I then went to go light and I saw none of the candles were lit, so I wondered where she lit, assumed she probably stepped out to her friend to light and then came back to get dressed. My DH said she never left though! It dawned on us that perhaps she lit in her room. I peeked in, and sure enough 2 little tea lights on a scrap of silver foil were lit on the dresser.

I was shocked. I never heard of anyone lighting in a bedroom before. Why didn't she just ask us where to light? Even if I hadn't prepared, I think she could have put her tea lights in the dining room. Why the bedroom? I think its a fire safety hazard. b"H there was no fire, but I was kind of annoyed at this guest.

My DH asked some friends if they ever had this and they told him it's a minhag to enjoy the candles, so it needs to be where you eat or sleep. Since they weren't eating by me, they lit in the bedroom where they will sleep. Quite frankly, I don't give a hoot about any minhag, its my house ask first before lighting in the bedroom, if you need to then sit in the dining room for 5 minutes to enjoy it.

So do I say anything to my neighbor? I didn't have the guts to tell guests I was upset about that why make them incomfortable, whats done is done. I don't think there's any point so this post is more of a vent, and to see what others think. And next time I have someone else's guests I'll make that clear to begin with no candles in the bedroom! WWYD?

artikidove

Sat, Dec 25 2010, 11:55 pm

it was inconsiderate of them not to ask/let you know but be assured that lighting where you sleep is a widespread minhag. not everyone takes that to mean lighting in your bedroom but there are those that do. we light in the house we sleep in so even if I am going out to eat by someone who lives far I will light in my house and walk there. I will admit I have stayed in places where I have lit in my room but I definitely made sure it was ok first.
so sorry you had to deal with this super annoying situation. my mom is a fire hazard freak and would kill any of us/guests if they did that.

aidelmaidel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:09 am

In one of the tishrei issues of the frum magazines - binah, mishpocha, etc there was an article about a woman in this situation whose entire apartment was destroyed because guests lit in their bedroom and they caught fire. (The family was away for shabbos and neighbors were making a simcha so the neighbor's guests were sleeping there.

The story was really a testament to the family's emunah, but they LOST everything. I took away that I explicitly tell all guests the only place we light is right here in the dining room.

TzenaRena

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:34 am

We had a guest who lit his chanukah candles next to his room, using tea light holders, with oil and wicks. I realized with a start after Shabbos had already begun, and he had gone to shul, that there was nothing under the tea lights, on the vinyl covered wooden step stool they were placed on. There was nothing I could do, so I put it out of my mind. Shabbos morning I remembered and thought "Boruch hashem, everything was okay, didn't have to worry...", Well I went to look at the stepstool, and the vinyl had been burned through, there were four charred looking tea light shaped holes in it! BH, the wooden step stool itself didn't catch fire.

I did learn from this incident to prepare a place for guests to light their licht, and always mention it to them. If they indicate that they want to light in their room, I tell them that I prefer not, and say that there must be a tray, or aluminum pan underneath.

Although for Chanukah, the minhag is that we put it at the door next to the room you are staying in, so I just make sure they have a tray, or pan to place unde it.

Isramom8

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 12:56 am

Amazing the things you have to state that should be obvious (like that the babysitter should not allow anyone in).

Tea lights don't seem very dangerous unless right next to a box of tissues or the parshas hashavua sheet. On the other hand, they left and were not keeping an eye on them, so that's potentially risky, and it is someoe else's home.

I confess to having lit Chanukah candles in a hotel room, but I was watching them the whole time. And they were directly in front of a smoke detector, which did not activate.

My dd and dsil's first meeting was in someone's guest apartment, where I had lit Chanukah candles for the effect. While talking, they observed that the red candles were dripping on the tablecloth. They remarked on it but didn't do anything about it! Ah well, it was worth it. Very Happy

geshmak

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 1:06 am

[quote="Isramom8"]Amazing the things you have to state that should be obvious (like that the babysitter should not allow anyone in).

Tea lights don't seem very dangerous unless right next to a box of tissues or the parshas hashavua sheet. On the other hand, they left and were not keeping an eye on them, so that's potentially risky, and it is someoe else's home.

My friend lit tea lights, and placed them directly on the dining room table, with no plate or aluminum tray underneath. Half her apt. was gutted due to the resulting massive fire.

amother

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:27 am

OP here

Well I did prepare candles for her, I just assumed every normal individual asks the host where to light, and even if they bring their own licht to still ask where to place them. I have a hard time understanding how an adult, and a parent of several children may I add, can be so clueless about fire risks. Even if it was her minhag to light where she sleeps, she should have asked first.

Isramom8

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:34 am

Wow, good to know what damage tea lights can do! I'd have thought that the aluminum that holds the tea light is enough to protect the surface it is placed on. Not that I've ever tried...

Was there wind blowing in that apartment? Or are you saying that the tea light just heated the table too high? (Do they know exactly what happened?) I'm not picturing this. What a a scary, difficult experience!

Fabulous

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:56 am

That's why dh insists that when we are away from home and I don't have my leichter like in hotel room or bungalow (obviously not someone else's house, because I would just light with them), I have to light the tea lights on top of silver foil in the sink, so it is somewhat contained and if ch'v something happened, water could be easily put it on top of it. Dunno if it really would help, but we do our best.

Shopmiami49

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 4:04 am

Fabulous wrote:

AYLR, but I'm pretty sure that you can not do anything to put out a fire if it's not pikuach nefesh. I know someone whose house caught on fire on Shabbos, and she and her family WALKED OUT OF THE HOUSE AND HAD TO WATCH THEIR HOUSE BURN until the firefighters came. A lot of damage.

sequoia

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 4:07 am

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Fabulous wrote:

WHAT?

geemum

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 4:51 am

The quest didn't really do anything wrong.

She thinks it's normal to allow lighting in bedroom (note she put down silver foil!!) and seeing as your DH hasn't mentioned it to her, she hadn't met you and you were obviously busy she didn't want to disturb more than necessary. it's quite uncomfortable being a guest at someone that has been arranged for you, rather than a direct invitation.

Like you say, OP, next time you or DH should show the guests that you have prepared lights for them in the dining room.

Inspired

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 5:06 am

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Fabulous wrote:

Please open any hilchos shabbos sefer. Most fires in today's world are pikuach nefesh situations and should be put out. I have been told by rabbanim to consider any fire in a residential area allowed to be put out.
Just because those people who you know did that does not mean they were right. BH they were not responsible for the loss of someone's life. DO NOT PLAY ARMCHAIR POSEK WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE AND DEATH.

The guest of the OP was of course wrong. You don't light a fire in someone else's house without permission to do so in a bedroom.

Quote:

I don't know exactly what happened - I heard the story second hand, but I would assume that they first left the house and then either asked a rabbi in their neighborhood,

\
chossid shoteh alert.
Did they knock on all their neighbor's doors and tell them their house was about to catch fire?
Did they mske sure that all their neighbors were all able bodied with no breathing problems?