Guests lit shabbos candles in their bedroom!!!

Shopmiami49

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 5:27 am

Inspired wrote:

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Fabulous wrote:

That's why dh insists that when we are away from home and I don't have my leichter like in hotel room or bungalow (obviously not someone else's house, because I would just light with them), I have to light the tea lights on top of silver foil in the sink, so it is somewhat contained and if ch'v something happened, water could be easily put it on top of it. Dunno if it really would help, but we do our best.

AYLR, but I'm pretty sure that you can not do anything to put out a fire if it's not pikuach nefesh. I know someone whose house caught on fire on Shabbos, and she and her family WALKED OUT OF THE HOUSE AND HAD TO WATCH THEIR HOUSE BURN until the firefighters came. A lot of damage.

Please open any hilchos shabbos sefer. Most fires in today's world are pikuach nefesh situations and should be put out. I have been told by rabbanim to consider any fire in a residential area allowed to be put out.
Just because those people who you know did that does not mean they were right. BH they were not responsible for the loss of someone's life. DO NOT PLAY ARMCHAIR POSEK WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE AND DEATH.

The guest of the OP was of course wrong. You don't light a fire in someone else's house without permission to do so in a bedroom.

Quote:

I don't know exactly what happened - I heard the story second hand, but I would assume that they first left the house and then either asked a rabbi in their neighborhood,

\
chossid shoteh alert.
Did they knock on all their neighbor's doors and tell them their house was about to catch fire?
Did they mske sure that all their neighbors were all able bodied with no breathing problems?

Again, I did not claim that the psak was right or wrong...nor did I ever claim that b/c they were ppl that I know that they were right. I only related their story to bring about an awareness. As I said earlier, I as pretty shocked at that psak. I think I can understand, though, that if there is a fire that is contained and will not pose a safety issue to any people living in or near there, that they would be required by halacha to wait for a non Jew to help them.

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 5:36 am

Quote:

That.
My dh's ruv (Litvish gadol) says today finding a case where you can leave it burn is almost impossible!

Inspired

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 5:40 am

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Inspired wrote:

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Fabulous wrote:

Quote:

I don't know exactly what happened - I heard the story second hand, but I would assume that they first left the house and then either asked a rabbi in their neighborhood,

psak? what psak??

Shopmiami49

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 5:55 am

Inspired wrote:

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Inspired wrote:

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Fabulous wrote:

Quote:

I don't know exactly what happened - I heard the story second hand, but I would assume that they first left the house and then either asked a rabbi in their neighborhood,

psak? what psak??

That was the psak they got - to leave the house and let it burn.

Inspired

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 6:06 am

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Inspired wrote:

psak? what psak??

That was the psak they got - to leave the house and let it burn.

FROM WHO? WHEN? You left out how they asked a psak for what they did. You said you are assuming theuy asked, after they left the house. Which is absolutely WRONG. Unless it is clear that there is no inyan of pikuach nefesh the halacha is to do everything possible to get the fire put out. If they asked a shailah they clearly thought maybe there was an inyan of pikuach nefesh, in which case they blood on their hands as they endangered other's lives. I do not believe they asked a psak for leaving. The only psak they copuld have asked after the fact was if they should go back, which DUH, unless they are trained fire fighters in full gear of course they cannot do. A fire spreads extremely fast. even if the posek was their next door neighbor they allowed the fire to get to big to handle on their own already. (lets hope he was their next door neighbor, and their only neighbor if he was paskening that they should endanger their neighbors).

Inspired

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 6:15 am

YESHASettler wrote:

So several years ago, a house caught fire on a yishuv on Friday night (either the plata or the candles).

While the fire department was called, and all the people in the house were out, the Rav refused to allow the fire fighters to put out the fire. They were only allowed to wet down the nearby houses.

Was it the winter or summer?
How far apart are the houses?
Were their sick or disabled people or young children in the vicinity?
Limaysa, what happened?

Shopmiami49

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 6:17 am

Inspired wrote:

Shopmiami49 wrote:

Inspired wrote:

psak? what psak??

That was the psak they got - to leave the house and let it burn.

So believe what you what and don't believe what you don't want to believe - my job is not to convince you of one way or the other. I don't know who and when they asked - I simply related their story. I never said whether I agree or not - all I said was that if it is not pikuach nefesh I am pretty sure that you can not put out a fire and if you go back where I originally posted it, it was in response to Fabulous, where she said that when she is away from home she lights tea lights in a sink so that the water can put out a fire if it starts (in the sink). And yes, I do not believe that a situation like that is pikuach nefesh, unless there are other factors involved ie wood cabinets, hanging towels, or anything else that can catch fire. And even then I am NOT paskening. I gave my opinion, b ut as I originally started off my first post, ask your local rabbi...

aidelmaidel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 7:12 am

I live in brooklyn and our house is attached. If I found a guest had lit in our "spare" room, the only room in the house with carpet, the room were all my flammable cotton linens are, I would go outside and find a non-jew and ask them to please move the candles.

Our cleaning lady is here until a little after lichtsen, I could ask her as well.

Also even though we have our licht on a tray, I use a ceramic tea light holder from ikea called "PS". They come in a box of 12, and each one safely holds a tealight.they can be linked or stand alone. I feel "safer" using them instead of just leaving on a tray.

Capitalchick

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 7:59 am

This reminds me of when my DH and I (on our honeymoon) visited my aunt and uncle (non-Jewish home) in Europe. They are very very anti-religion, so we felt very uncomfortable asking them if we could light our menorah for Chanukah. Anyway, my DH absolutely wanted to light, which was understandable, so he just hid a menorah in the bedroom and lit it once we went to bed that night. Here's the kicker....their entire house is made of wood! They live in a wood cabin-like house. I was petrified that we'd burn their house down, so I insisted that my DH stay away (totally jet lagged!) until all the candles had burned out safely.
Poor guy!!!

Capitalchick

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:01 am

YESHASettler wrote:

I can't believe the firefighters didn't tell the Rav to shove it and let them do their job.

Isramom8

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:05 am

Capitalchick wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

I can't believe the firefighters didn't tell the Rav to shove it and let them do their job.

Ever been to Israel?

Capitalchick

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:07 am

Isramom8 wrote:

Capitalchick wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

I can't believe the firefighters didn't tell the Rav to shove it and let them do their job.

Ever been to Israel?

Yes, of course. But it doesn't change the fact that some things, religious or not, are just silly and dangerous and thus should be ignored.

ewa-jo

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:18 am

Capitalchick wrote:

That reminds me of something that happened to friends this past Chanukah... their kids made menorahs in gan (wood pieces glued together) and of course, the kids wanted to light them. The family lit and then went into another room for a bit. When they came back, the kids' menoras were *ON FIRE*. B"H, they were at home and noticed in time and threw the menoras into the sink and ran the tap. My friend went to the gan and yelled at them a lot.

HindaRochel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:31 am

back to OP.

The guests may not realize the danger they put everyone into. I would ask your friends for the number, call the guests up, let them know that you enjoyed having them, but that it wasn't a good idea to light in the bedroom without asking first, and that it may be a good idea to check with other hosts before lighting in bedrooms. Again, tell them how you were glad to have hosted them and would enjoy doing so in the future.

ie, place the negative between two positives.

I think it is probably better to tell the guests rather than talk to someone else.