Guests lit shabbos candles in their bedroom!!!

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:43 am

In halacha, risks are taken into account, including mental risks and even financial loss.
In this case he was happily machmir on everyone (the house dwellers, the neighbours who were put at risk, the firemen who could have had to deal with a generalized fire...), I bet if it had been his house, or even the house just near his house, it would have been harder to be like that.

saw50st8

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 8:48 am

geemum wrote:

The quest didn't really do anything wrong.

She thinks it's normal to allow lighting in bedroom (note she put down silver foil!!) and seeing as your DH hasn't mentioned it to her, she hadn't met you and you were obviously busy she didn't want to disturb more than necessary. it's quite uncomfortable being a guest at someone that has been arranged for you, rather than a direct invitation.

Like you say, OP, next time you or DH should show the guests that you have prepared lights for them in the dining room.

This is really a ridiculous answer IMO.

As a guest, you should find out what your host wants. That includes which bathroom to use, where to light your candles, if you can open the fridge and get a drink. This is not your home.

OP, I would mention it to your friends so that the next time they ask someone to host them, they can warn them about the candle issues.

If it were me, I would have blown them out (if it were before shabbos) or gotten a neighbor to do it. There is way too much flammable material in bedrooms to make it safe in any way.

sarahd

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 9:07 am

Ruchel wrote:

In halacha, risks are taken into account, including mental risks and even financial loss.

Nice that you know that. Do you think that maybe a rav with semicha, rav of an entire yishuv, might also be aware of this?

gryp

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 9:10 am

Tea lights are NOTORIOUS for becoming big fires. I once watched a table go up in flames because of the tea lights that were on them, and yes, there was aluminum foil underneath. A few other times I watched as tea lights turned suddenly into a joint fire and BH we caught it in time.

Tinfoil DOESN'T STOP a fire, it allows it to burn just fine.

ETA: When I'm a guest, I light where I eat. I would never light a fire in someone's house and then leave.

Tzippora

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 9:19 am

My sister is autistic and had a fascination with candles as a child. We almost ended up lighting electric candles for shabbos and chanuka (Mutar according to R' Shlomo Zalman Auerbach) because we couldn't keep her away. It gave my mother a good healthy fear of flames - the person lighting in the bedroom would have had to find another place to sleep for shabbos!

My personal favorite was the time the other sister knocked over the licht on Friday night while my father was at shul, lighting the table, the challah cover, and the floor nearby on fire (she's a talented girl). My mother got the kids out the front door, dialed 911 and called the fire department, and then took a basin of water and put out the fire.

My father tried to ask why she had called the fire department on shabbos if it was small enough to put out, or alternatively, why she had put out the fire on shabbos if the firemen were on their way. That did not go over well Smile

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:29 am

sarahd wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

In halacha, risks are taken into account, including mental risks and even financial loss.

Nice that you know that. Do you think that maybe a rav with semicha, rav of an entire yishuv, might also be aware of this?

Apparently being rav of a yishuv isn't enough for Imamother, so no.
Can't be both ways.

Raisin

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:38 am

healthywoman wrote:

I didnt read the whole thread, but I know some pple are makpid to light where they sleep. perhaps she took that literally.

in that case she should be makpid to stay in the room till they go out.

IloveHashem613

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:58 am

OP- I would have been pissed if my guests lit candles in the bedroom without asking me. I totally agree with you- I really don't care about your minhag, my minhag is that my family's safety comes first. People have to sometimes put their minhagim aside if they are being a guest and do what their host feels comfortable with, and what's safe!! I guess you just have to make it clear to future guests that they may not light in the bedroom (unfortunately cuz ppl can't figure that out themselves)

HindaRochel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 11:58 am

Raisin wrote:

healthywoman wrote:

I didnt read the whole thread, but I know some pple are makpid to light where they sleep. perhaps she took that literally.

in that case she should be makpid to stay in the room till they go out.

That would have defeated the purpose of her staying by the family in the first place.

The couple made a mistake. People make mistakes. Thank G-d B"H this mistake didn't cost any lives. So now thy need to know that it isn't safe and they need to be told nicely why it is a mistake and IM"H they won't make the same mistake again.

amother

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 1:16 pm

Love this thread, bec this past sukkos, my bro-in-law took a yartzeit candle and stuck it IN the closet on a shelf, so he could more conveniently light his cigarettes.

So he totally lost his long shot at the Best Guest Award, which was a real shame, since he was already in 923874938479385794th place.

My BIL is my age and generally refuses to listen to me or my rules, and my husband feels bad criticizing or arguing with his brother, who lives in another country and who we barely see.

My husband's family made me feel like I was making a big deal out of nothing when I called them to explain what had happened, and to ask them to explain to him how seriously dangerous his actions were because I certainly wasn't getting through. They did not say a word to him about it.

I still get mad thinking about it.

sarahd

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 2:51 pm

Ruchel wrote:

sarahd wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

In halacha, risks are taken into account, including mental risks and even financial loss.

Nice that you know that. Do you think that maybe a rav with semicha, rav of an entire yishuv, might also be aware of this?

Apparently being rav of a yishuv isn't enough for Imamother, so no.
Can't be both ways.

But it's enough for you - you can't have it both ways either.

aidelmaidel

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:17 pm

I have to ask, for the posters who are saying it's not a big deal, have you ever had a fire? Or know someone close to you who has?

I myself had clothing I was wearing catch on fire as a teen and was saved by stop drop and roll. The entire sleeve, shoulder, and armpit of my dress had burned away before it was out.

A very good friend had a fire and the lost everything.

Fire is dangerous and should be treated as such.

joy613

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:28 pm

Raisin wrote:

healthywoman wrote:

I didnt read the whole thread, but I know some pple are makpid to light where they sleep. perhaps she took that literally.

in that case she should be makpid to stay in the room till they go out.

I don't think she needs to stay there till they burn out, but she should have been makpid to stay there till it became dark and she could get enjoyment out of the lights. Otherwise lighting where you sleep if you're not eating there is pointless I think.

TzenaRena

Sun, Dec 26 2010, 3:33 pm

Our Rav told us that if we're going out to eat, we should make sure the candles will still be burning when we get back. Or else, to sit by the licht for a certain amount of time to enjoy them, possibly twenty minutes (?), before going out.