Guests lit shabbos candles in their bedroom!!!

chocolate moose

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 9:33 am

If you're away from home, the din is that you can light less - I think the minimum is two, if you're married.

For people who light many, do they bring a tray ? I mean,candles are cheap but where do you safely put them ?

It's not the discussion here, but lighting more candles is hiddur mitzvah, but lighting longer or better is also hiddur mitzvah. I always use the longer candles (since I wanted to light with oil and dh didn't want me to take that on).

aidelmaidel

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 9:40 am

I am very careful about fire safety.

I always light 6 and I light oil. When I travel I ask my hosts before I come if they have olive oil in the house and I bring 6 tealights with me. I take the wax out, put the wick back and fill tin with oil.

The only time I lit less was in the hospital and then I used a 2 branch electric thing they give.

We are 6 people now, the only people who host us are good friends Wink

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 9:43 am

chocolate moose wrote:

<snip>
It's not the discussion here, but lighting more candles is hiddur mitzvah, but lighting longer or better is also hiddur mitzvah. I always use the longer candles (since I wanted to light with oil and dh didn't want me to take that on).

For safety reasons you should NEVER go to sleep until all the candles are out.
Its hard for us to stay awake past the chicken soup part of our Friday night meal...
I dont think we could pull off candles staying lit for very long on a Friday night.

718

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 11:40 am

like others said- whats point of telling neighbors? I would ask them right then and there where they szint and make them bring the candels to the table somehow.
Its deff a safety hazard.
But now that its over, its over. next time youll know to tell your guest that you prepared candels for them at the table.

Butterfly

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 12:51 pm

amother wrote:

I was shocked. I never heard of anyone lighting in a bedroom before.

Well it so happens that lots of people have heard of it...
I've been hosted tens of times, in and OOT, where the hosts prepared the candles in our bedroom.. We never ever suggested it..

amother wrote:

Even if I hadn't prepared, I think she could have put her tea lights in the dining room. Why the bedroom?

Perhaps she assumed that it's not proper to simply barge into your DR and light her candles there, UNINVITED.
Perhaps it would have rather been proper for the host (or to train (discipline) members of the family) to introduce to their guests, upon their arrival, whatever it is you would like for them to comply with...

Perhaps your guest's peeked out of their room to see if they can spot someone close-by, to ask where she can light the candles, but there was no one in the vicinity at the time. They also may have felt that it wasn't proper to roam around in a stranger's home looking for someone or something, as they might accidentally 'intrude' in something private..

It's not so easy being a guest either. Confused

mominlkwd

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 4:59 pm

I have also never heard the minhag of lighting more than 2 when a guest - in fact when I got married my sister took me aside the first shabbos of Sheva Brochos and told me when I light to have in mind that when I can't light the correct amount I will light 2. I have asked guests how many they want to light and they always say "2 is fine" when I ask if they are sure they always confirm that it's fine.

I also think lighting in your room is reckless, dangerous, rude and disrespectful. Would you leave a gun in your guest room with the door unlocked? it's totally the same. You are putting others at risk with your behavior. Especially not telling the host - that is just completely inexcusable. What if the smoke alarms went off while you are out and they had no idea where the fire was coming from since you lit in the basement guest room and they are on the top floor? To say the hostess was at fault since she didn't personally point the way to where they light is way off - It's understood that you light with the hostess. Either they knew the host wouldn't be happy with them and they wanted to anyway so they did it without asking and hoped the hosts wouldn't find out or they really are oblivious to the dangers of fire - which is worrisome in itself.

I will be in the minority here but I do think you should tell the neighbor, so that she can inform her friends that this is unacceptable and that at the least you must inform your hosts that you intend to light in an unwatched room.

amother

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 12:08 am

amother wrote:

Even if I hadn't prepared, I think she could have put her tea lights in the dining room. Why the bedroom?

[/quote]

Op here

I didn't see her right when she came in but I did speak to her a good 30 minutes before shabbos, asking if she needed anything, told her my kids could help her with her baby while she gets settled. And her DH came down to ask my DH for silver foil so if he felt ok asking for silver foil then he could've also asked where to light. So yes during the time she lit there WERE people in the vicinity, I just wasn there the second she came in, and even if I was, I doubt telling her where to light would have been the first thing on my mind to tell her. She had no problem asking me for something she needed for her baby, so she should have no problem asking where to light. I didn't have to show her to do her thing in the toilet, and not the bed, cuz its kinda obvious right? Ditto with candles IMO, it's obvious to ask host where to light.

amother

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 12:12 am

Op here:

My DH had no clue why the guy needed silver foil, couldn't imagine, and didn't ask. Had he realized, he would have asked them to please light downstairs.

Next time I have guests I'll make the request in advance but honestly, its like telling an adult to lock the door behind them when they come in after their simcha and we are asleep.

elementary my dear Watson.

HindaRochel

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 12:30 am

amother wrote:

It was elementary to you, not to them. As other posters have stated hosts have set them up (to light) in bedrooms.

Just mention it to the couple themselves, politely, without the judgment, and when you have guests point out that you prefer they light in the dining room and "while you understand some people do light in the bedroom you consider it a fire hazard and do not want lit candles in the bedroom."
The end.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 5:16 am

sarahd wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

I wonder 100 years ago how many people lit a "special" number instead of two.

Probably more than you think. My grandparents got married about 90-100 years ago and both my grandmothers lit more than two candles.

I'm sure there were some.
I just cannot find any "old person" who witnessed it!

amother

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 10:18 am

I always light in my bedroom when I go away for shabbos. no hosts have ever had a problem with it. I set the candles up on top of a tray, away from anything that could catch on fire.

and as to the poster who said that the rav made a mistake in his psak on the yishuv...
jsut a clear example of "daas balabatim hefech m'daas torah"...
you obviously have no faith in Psak Torah.

sarahd

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 3:02 pm

Ruchel wrote:

sarahd wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

I wonder 100 years ago how many people lit a "special" number instead of two.

Probably more than you think. My grandparents got married about 90-100 years ago and both my grandmothers lit more than two candles.

I'm sure there were some.
I just cannot find any "old person" who witnessed it!

Is my mother old enough? She witnessed her mother 70+ years ago lighting more than two and my grandmother didn't just start then. (And I have to confirm this, but I am pretty sure that my mother's grandmother also lit more than two candles. And I can assure you that they were not exceptions to the rule.) Furthermore, all my aunts who are or would be around 90 light/lit more than two and they didn't come up with the idea from nowhere. Do you really think that 40 or 50 years ago someone (or 10,000 someones) just suddenly decided, "Hey, let's start adding candles for each kid, wouldn't that be cool?"