Emotional Eating-Support Group

rosehill

Sat, Feb 12 2011, 9:04 pm

tweek wrote:

........ why do we keep doing something that we know doesn't help the situation and if anything makes things worse?

Tweek, I was thinking about this question all Shabbos. I believed that if I only thought long enough, and hard enough, I would figure out the answer.

But I didn't.

I think that's because each one of us that does this, does it for a different reason.

We all engage in behaviours that give us some sort of "pay off". We don't always know what the pay off is, nor is the pay off always in our ultimate best interest, but if we think about it, we'll figure it out. At one point in her book, Geneen makes an interesting point. We all know how to lose weight. It's simple math. If we burn more calories than we consume we'll lose weight, right? So all we have to do is either exercise more, or, as one poster put it so un-elegantly on another thread, put down the cake.

Yet we have a multi-billion dollar industry in this country selling us points, carbs, calories, sprays, pills and so on, and we're getting fatter. Why can't we just put down the proverbial cake? And more to the point, says Geneen, why do so many people who HAVE lost weight, gain it back? They for sure know what to do, why can't they keep it up??

So she answers that once we get to thinland, it's not what we had imagined it to be. Our money problems don't miraculously go away, our kids still talk back to us our job is still boring or whatever.

I would add to what Geneen is saying. When you're in a binge, when you KNOW you're not hungry, and heck, you're not even enjoying it, you're DELIBERATELY self sabotaging, and only you can figure out why.

For some people, it's something deep and dark, and beyond the scope of what we can deal with here. Maybe it's a childhood of abuse, and the weight helps deflect attention. Or maybe it's something simple, but insidious. A perfectly happy family, but your sister was "the pretty one", and you were "the smart one", so you eat in order to be taken seriously for your brain!!

And, of course, there are a gazillion possibilities in between.

And so, tweek, I ask you (and you need not answer here, of course, just answer yourself). Why do you keep doing something that you know doesn't help the situation and if anything makes things worse?

ChossidMom

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 9:49 am

rosehill wrote:

If I'm hungry, I'll make myself a sandwich.

And if I'm not hungry, there is no difference between munching on carrots or munching on pretzels. The craving is just a sign that I need the work!!!!

So now, I buy those really big carrots with a top and a bottom and a skin, when I need them for a recipe or for a salad or something, and I leave the rabbit food for, well, the rabbits!!

First of all, there is a big difference between munching on carrots and munching on pretzels. Yes, they are just pretzels but we also have to remember that all processed foods are basically cr*p. I'm sorry but it's true. This is not nourishment. I'm not saying to eat carrots if you don't like them. But I am saying that it would be nice to be in a place where we could make CHOICES. Good choices, as often as possible. Cookies and pretzels are really bad choices health-wise. That's where my brain has a hard time with Hirschman and Munter.

As an aside, I love carrots. I also love red peppers and kohlrabi. I don't always feel like snacking on them, but when I do, I always feel that I am nurturing myself and my body.

Knowing what I know about trans fats, processed foods and all the stuff (everything processed) that causes inflammation and disease, I have a very hard time justifying eating garbage.

And this, from a person who yearns to become a normal eater.

cassandra

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 2:41 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

rosehill wrote:

You can't "justify" it in the sense that they are equal foods, but you have to equalize them in your mind because when their are good foods and bad foods then in the mind of an emotional eater you are subsequently good or bad based on what you eat. I think once you learn to move past the judgment stage (of food and yourself) and you no longer have an emotional attachment to food then you can and should make the healthier choice, when faced with a choice. But for someone with an emotional eating problem this isn't step A or B, it's further down the line.

cassandra

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 3:05 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

How can I "equalize" them in my mind when I know on every level that carrots promote good health and cookies promote sickness? Maybe this is the basic problem I've always had with H&M's "sheeta". Rabbit food and commercial, processed goods are NOT equal.

Because an emotional eater doesn't eat in accordance with her beliefs. It's not a matter of the foods being better or worse, it's a matter of you valuing yourself as better or worse for eating them. And until you can let go of that, then you need to treat all foods as the same, because that's the only way out of the cycle. Once you don't feel any better morally for eating the rabbit food rather than the Oreos, then you should, and likely will, choose the rabbit food over the Oreos. Or normal, balanced food. But if you are primarily eating for your health successfully then you aren't an emotional eater.

cassandra

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 3:46 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

Well, I'll soon be entering my 6th decade (gulp) and I still can't equate an oreo with a carrot.
Or a chocolate bar with a protein.
Any suggestions on how to get over that hurdle?

I think it's a matter of how you approach yourself. You know intellectually that a carrot is better. And your body may even know that a carrot is better, and yet, something drives you toward the oreo rather than the carrot. We can name that drive whatever we want and we can figure out its root, but the bottom line is that you need to acknowledge that you have a limitation, and that limitation makes a carrot and an Oreo the same. Why? Because they both have an emotional effect on you. Eating the Oreo makes you feel bad about yourself, and eating the carrot makes you feel good about yourself, emotionally, morally, in a value judgment way. The fact that an Oreo makes you feel physically bad and a carrot makes you feel physically good just helps that- because it's proof of your virtue or your failing. But you have to believe that at this point, at this moment, when you are choosing the Oreo and not the carrot you are just as good as yesterday when you chose the carrot and not the oreo. Because your goodness and self worth have absolutely nothing to do with what you eat. That is how the carrot and the Oreo are the same- because you are the same person regardless of which one you choose. When you can see yourself that way then the oreo and the carrot equalize, because neither have power over you anymore, and they are both just foods, and food is just food. Only then can you be free, really free, to choose the one that you want intellectually and that your body craves physically, and emotions are completely out of the equation.

rosehill

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 3:50 pm

If you *like* eating carrots, eat as many carrots as you please. I won't stop you!!

If you're hungry, and carrots will satisfy you, enjoy them!!

But from an emotional eating perspective, though, if you're NOT hungry, and you're eating to fill an EMOTIONAL need, then there's no difference between carrot sticks and pretzels!! You're still shoving food into your mouth to satisfy something other than physiological hunger.

A separate conversation (and a good one!) would be to plan for healthy meals and snacks for those times when we are hungry.

Does that distinction make sense from an EMOTIONAL perspective, if not from a nutritional one?

ChossidMom

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 4:03 pm

rosehill wrote:

And this is why programs like CEA HOW say "three meals a day and nothing in between" because they don't want you "picking up" anything. Ever. So, if you're hankering for something to shove in, they tell you to use your tools, pick up the phone etc. Anything but picking up the food/crutch/addiction.

Quote:

A separate conversation (and a good one!) would be to plan for healthy meals and snacks for those times when we are hungry.

I agree.

Quote:

Does that distinction make sense from an EMOTIONAL perspective, if not from a nutritional one?

Of course it makes sense. Yet, to my messed up brain it's ok to eat a carrot not from hunger whereas and oreo is suicide. Don't you love my extremes?

Blue jay

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 5:25 pm

I dont mean to jump into the discourse about carrot sticks, because I dont like them either.

But is this discussion really about carrots or our compulsive behaviour towards food?

If you want the oreo, then cassandra eat the oreo
If you want the carrot sticks, then Chossid mom enjoy!
and Rosehill if you want to throw them out the window Im with you!

Truth be told, Im finding that with my new found eating privelages I tend to jump for the sweet pastries for desert,

Foods of poor nutritional value do have a hold on you, it definatly grabs hold of your behaima! So to change my taste palette I might eat a healthy vegggie dish that consciously I dont really crave just to tame the wild beast a little. While I eat my choice health dish, I kind of break the sweet stuff binge for awhile at least, So chossid mom , I understand when you say that junk food is total cr<<! Because it is!
But it cannot be the forbidden fruit either,

rosehill

Sun, Feb 13 2011, 7:42 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

I'm not familiar with that program, but it doesn't sound compatible with what we're doing here.

We don't want any rules. We're grownups. We don't want anyone telling us what we can eat, when we can eat, or how much we can eat.

We've tried that, and it hasn't worked. Because it creates a "yetzer hara".

With this approach, we have no rules, except to listen to, and trust our bodies. Eventually, when we know we CAN have anything we want, we find ourselves wanting the foods that make us feel healthy and strong.

ChossidMom wrote:

to my messed up brain it's ok to eat a carrot not from hunger whereas and oreo is suicide. Don't you love my extremes?

Firstly, yes I do love extremes!!

But secondly, you make sense from a calorie counting point of view. We're not doing that any more. We're thinking about why we're eating. And if we're munching carrot sticks because we're bored, lonely, depressed or whatever, then we're not doing the work we need to do, and we won't have the tools when it's not carrot sticks, but jelly beans awaiting.

tweek

Mon, Feb 14 2011, 12:21 am

First of all thank you everyone for your help with the binging thing. I think that once I mess up I start to panic and that actually makes the problem worse. This time I took everyone's advice and decided to concentrate on my reaction to the binging rather than the binging itself. Today was definitely better and tomorrow will hopefully be even more so.
Chosidmom, since you mentioned Carol Munter, I wanted to share this with you. A relative of mine actually had a consultation with her and one of the things they discussed was curbing her binging. She told my relative that she should concentrate on having as many positive caretaking/eating experiences as possible. A positive eating experience is one where you wait until you are hungry, eat exactly what you want, enjoy every bite, and stop when you are full. She said that the more such experiences you have of nurturing yourself positively with food, the fewer urges to binge you will have. Slowly your body and psyche will start to heal and your eating will become more normal.
Besides for the behavioral and psychological aspect of this, I think there is probably a physiological side which can play a role in our carrot stick discussion. As our various eating issues are healing, I see my body needing less of the real "junky stuff" Somehow as we get rid of the other types of "garbage", and become better "caretakers" that extends to our food choices as well. Equalizing all types of food means being really open to what our body really wants or needs. Sometimes it's a carrot, and sometimes it's definitely chocolate!
(Well I guess when the binging stops I think I have all the answers again!)

3mitzvos

Mon, Feb 14 2011, 2:07 am

So, yesterday I was talking to my sister about my eating healthy and exercising. I told her that I've been losing some weight, but very slowly and it's frustrating. She suggested I try this 3-day diet that a nutritionist gave to her. It's something like this:

Breakfast: 1 egg, 1/2 an orange
Rest of day: UNLIMITED chicken breast, turkey breast (not cold-cuts), and green vegetables
Drinks: Only water or Crystal Light

My sister said that when she did it, she lost 5 lbs in the 3 days. It sounded wonderful -- 5 lbs in 3 days!!! So, last night I decided to give it a try starting today.... Well, guess what -- it's only 9 am and I've already had 1/2 a french toast, a slice of ww bread w/gevina levana, and 2 sour sticks. What is going on here???? I thought I was gonna start this diet. I messed up before I even started! I think I'm gonna just stick to eating mindfully and exercising.... even if it does take off the weight more slowly. Instead of following the diet, I devoured food that for the past week I was able to avoid pretty easily! I think I was thinking something along the lines of "omg, this diet is going to be sooooo hard... I'm not gonna be able to eat anything but chicken and green veggies!!! ahhhhhh" ------->>>>> BINGE

ChossidMom

Mon, Feb 14 2011, 4:38 am

rosehill wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

I'm not familiar with that program, but it doesn't sound compatible with what we're doing here.

Of course it's not compatible with what we're doing here!!! CEA HOW is an offshoot of OA. I was just pointing out that we all recognize that it's not what you're eating - it's that you're putting something in your mouth for reasons other than hunger.

Quote:

We don't want any rules. We're grownups. We don't want anyone telling us what we can eat, when we can eat, or how much we can eat.

We've tried that, and it hasn't worked. Because it creates a "yetzer hara".

With this approach, we have no rules, except to listen to, and trust our bodies. Eventually, when we know we CAN have anything we want, we find ourselves wanting the foods that make us feel healthy and strong.

ChossidMom wrote:

to my messed up brain it's ok to eat a carrot not from hunger whereas and oreo is suicide. Don't you love my extremes?

BTW I NEVER EVER EVER speak from a "calorie counting" point of view. I speak purely from a nutritional point of view and there is a world of difference. The problem is that in my mind, there are still "good" foods (like carrot sticks) and "bad" foods (like oreos) and I have a very hard time changing this attitude which is only reinforced every time I read sites like Dr. Mercola, Andrew Weill or any other health related site.

People, I am almost 50 years old. I'm not 25 anymore, and able to eat whatever I want. I see what kind of health problems people all around me are dealing with at my age. Would you like to hear some of them? Diabetes type II, blood pressure etc. I myself have a fatty liver. Can you see where it's a little hard for me not to make value judgements of the food I put into my body? I could be the next diabetes patient ch"v. My fatty liver could fail. So, while I very, very much want to get to that place where food is not such a loaded issue and I'm able to make healthy choices WITHOUT feeling deprived, I am really having a hard time.

Sorry to be raining on everyone's parade here. I have just btdt so many times. Dieting doesn't work for me (for more than a month. And then I binge much worse than before) and I can't seem to get beyond my judgements about all the "evil" foods and become a normal eater.

There you have it.

That being said, I don't want to discourage anyone from the "normal eating" journey because I believe that it is the only way to go. If I could only figure it out for myself...

tweek

Mon, Feb 14 2011, 8:30 am

3mitzvos, in one of Geneene Roth's workshops she makes a promise to her participants. She promises them that if they leave here and think this is not for them because it is too hard or slow or too much work and run off to try the latest diet they heard about from a friend who just lost so many pounds in so few days, she promises that in a year from now they will still be at the same place that they are right now and probably a few pounds heavier. (I am unfortunately proof of that promise) But, she says, if they make a commitment to try her program and stick with it through the ups and downs for a year, she promises them that in a year from now they will be in an entirely new place regarding food and eating. Yes, it is the slower method (I still have a hard time with that, I want to lose all the weight now and then work on keeping them off this way!) but it changes you from the inside out.
ChosidMom, I am not your age, but I know many young people who suffer from various problems because of their health and it scares me to no end. I keep telling myself that rather than concentrate on the health value of one particular food entering my body, I should realize that the healthiest thing I can do right now is get my body to work in its optimum mode. In WeighDown Workshop (I do not recommend this officially for reading since it has a whole religious angle to it. I got a heter to read the eating related parts) the author explains the very physical aspects to eating this way. She shows scientifically how if you are not eating "extra" then the body is designed to take whatever nutrients it needs from what you are eating and use it. In this way your body is not overburdened by all the extras and is able to work at its maximum efficiency. This is the healthiest state a body can be in. BTW, the Rambam talks about this quite a bit.

Blue jay

Mon, Feb 14 2011, 4:17 pm

Thank you ladies, for recommending "Breaking Free"

Because of this book. I truly think now in terms of emotions rather than emotional eating. Im allowing myself to feel happy, sad, anxious, stressed.

Its not about carrots or chocolates anymore, rules, freedom and rebelling,,,its about me and myself and I. And for those of you going through this self discovery process I hope its the same for you too!

Because, this is an introspective time in my life, Im withdrawing from this thread, writing in a journal and looking for solutions and an opportunites to grow in my life.

I wish everyone the best of everything!

rosehill

Tue, Feb 15 2011, 8:09 am

QueenBee3, Crying

, we'll miss you. Wishing you all the very very best on your journey, and hope you'll check in here once in a while and let us know how you're doing.

Chossidmom, I've been agonising over what you're saying, and trying to find the answer for you. I'm not 50 yet, but I'm blah blah blah years old. I shudder to think about the amount of time and money I've spent over the years trying to be thin. At best, I would lose weight and then gain it back. At worst, I wouldn't lose weight, and hate myself.

So here's the thing. (putting my Dr Phil hat on for a second).

You're 100% right. Carrots are healthier than jelly beans. And we can read 100 books, and visit 100 nutritionists, and they'll ALL tell you that.

But how's that working for you????

It sounds like despite all your (sound at that) nutritional knowledge, you're still overweight, and still unhealthy.

So you've got nothing to lose by giving in to this, and giving it a try. When you've exorcised some of the demons, you can start incorporating healthful choices into your day-to-day life. My personal philosophy is to try to eat mostly healthy food most of the time. I don't limit portions, and I don't beat myself up when I eat cheesecake at a simcha, or preserved food on vacation.

Tweek, glad to see you back, hope things are going well for you. That's a really important point you make, that once you learn how to listen to your body, your body will tell you what it needs. It's like diving into the unknown at first, but I promise there is a safety net.

It's been 2 years since I first read Geneen's book, and it's true, it's changed EVERYTHING. My whole relationship with food has changed, but so has my relationship with myself, and as a consequence, my relationships with those around me.

It's a long journey, but the destination is beautiful.