13.5 yo dd involved with boy

energy11

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 8:21 pm

amother wrote:

we did think of moving but aren't going that route just yet, because we feel moving is just a quick-fix. She will soon discover the local boys wherever we go. She first needs to understand why this is not good behaviour. I asked her if he was threatening her but she said no. I think I may have to speak some more about that though, incase she doesnt recognise what being threatened is.
poster before - what do you mean by parev schools? do you hvae any ideas?

I think you are handeling it well, but maybe a bit overeacting?
Moving to another place or switching 4 kids to a different school just because she speaks to a boy??

mammele26

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 8:59 pm

Op,

A couple of things. It seems you have (generally) good rules in place for your children. And I'm not coming here to tell you which rules to continue enforcing and which ones to drop. I do want to explain though, that the point here -more than anything- is to get ahead of her. Whatever you do, she ends up being a step ahead of you. You might have to give one big leap. I understand that you don't want her to have an MP4. If the question is if she can have it or not, and you say no, I understand. But is the question 'if' she will have it, or 'from whom' she will have it? If it's the latter, what's the point of not giving in to something that's happening anyways? If she has it in any case, at least something should have been accomplished by her having it. If it came from you, she might realize that you are on her side. And what you say about money, I'm sorry. Like another poster said, THIS IS PIKUACH NEFESH. If someone were to tell you that for a sum of money your daughter's yiddishkeit would be guaranteed, how much would you be willing to pay? I hope alot. This is your chance. Now's the time to invest. You come here with such a tzarah, this is the biggest tzaar, and when given advice, you answer 'money'? We are discussing your biggest treasure. I understand other things came up, you're tight, but what was more important than THIS? If you need, go collecting. The same goes for getting her occupied. You're given good ideas, and your answer is MONEY?? And all this while you know that that boy does have $? How are you thinking of fighting this boy? You seriously think that cooking and baking with you is more exciting than this boy? I personally think if you want her to be too busy to be with him, it has to occupy her heart too. She has to be excited about those occupations. I suggest she should go do things that are considered privileges, like dancing lessons, music lessons etc. I don't really have ideas, but MONEY IS NO EXCUSE. And while I understand your rules (I am also a person of priciple), you have to decide whether you want to be 'right', or you want to be 'happy'. If being 'right' (keeping to your priciples) will not get you where you want to be, what is the point? Again, I'm not telling you which thing to give, but the important thing to remember is to GET AHEAD OF HER. You come up with exciting stuff for her before she even dreams of it. Try it, you might be surprised.

Also, like another poster pointed out, her father must be involved in her life. There are many stories of tzadikim how they used to make time to spend with their daughters. This is of utmost importance. If your dh doesn't exactly know how to start having a good close relationship with her, a good way to start is by starting to do her homework with her. Any girl could use a father's help with homework. This is a great time for them to be together and develop a relationship. This relationship could save her life. A father has no excuse for not filling this role, especially in a crisis like this. If it means giving up his learning, then be it. This is the 'lishmor v'laasos' part of torah.

Lati

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 11:29 pm

energy11 wrote:

amother wrote:

I think you are handeling it well, but maybe a bit overeacting?
Moving to another place or switching 4 kids to a different school just because she speaks to a boy??

no wonder she rebel! Rolling Eyes

amother

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 12:54 am

energy11 wrote:

amother wrote:

I think you are handeling it well, but maybe a bit overeacting?
Moving to another place or switching 4 kids to a different school just because she speaks to a boy??

hmm I guess 4 pages is too much to read properly. I said we are not moving, and dont want to switch 4 kids. Plus I guess you missed the part that she told me he'd cuddled with her. Atleast that is how much she has told me, Gd knows if it has gone furthur than a cuddle. OP

amother

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 1:02 am

mammele26 wrote:

Op,

A couple of things. It seems you have (generally) good rules in place for your children. And I'm not coming here to tell you which rules to continue enforcing and which ones to drop. ....This relationship could save her life. A father has no excuse for not filling this role, especially in a crisis like this. If it means giving up his learning, then be it. This is the 'lishmor v'laasos' part of torah.

good post, thankyou for your thoughts.
I spoke to dh last night. I think he understands being more involved in her life also, we just have to work it into his schudule of grueling work and learning a bit in the evenings. Usually when its nice weather Sunday is a day we would spend the afternoon together. Maybe shabbes he could give her some time. I also told him we should forget the grounding her - it hasn't worked anyway, she still manages to pass notes etc, so I think we are going to work on that part too. Money, I said I would pay for "help" - I guess I just have to redefine help.
thanks again, OP.

amother

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 1:22 am

new amother here - just want to dispel a few myths!

1. that if a girl is interested in a boy's attention, she is not getting enough attention/love from her father

2. that taking the "forbidden" aspect away will discourage the relationship between the girl and boy

my personal story, briefly:

I grew up upper middle class, loving family, happily married parents, great childhood. I was a top student, serious about studies, rule-abiding at home, typical "good kid." And when a 15-year-old boy at school started paying attention to me when I was 14, I absolutely loved it. Spent hours talking to him after school (went to public high school - did not grow up frum), ended up dating very seriously for several months - doing things my parents would have been SHOCKED to know. They trusted me completely because I was a happy, straight kid in all ways - but boy did I push the envelope with my relationship with that boy, because I really loved him (OK, "loved") and definitely loved the attention and excitement.

My father was involved, loving, complimented me, etc. - no complaints! I still loved having a boyfriend.

And about taking the mystery out of it - well, my parents accepted that I had a boyfriend even though they were surprised at first (I didn't keep it a secret once we actually started going out on dates instead of just hanging out and talking). He definitely came to my house, spent time with my family, etc., and I was allowed to go out with him, go to his house, etc. To me that meant - OK! Go for it.

He happened to be Jewish, but when I later dated a boy who was not Jewish (starting about a year later), my parents accepted him, too, even though as very involved Jews, they must not have been happy with my choice. So... I had license to continue, and no moral compunctions about dating whoever.... and continued to date both Jews and non-Jews through high school and college. Eventually I realized I wanted to marry someone Jewish - BH.

But don't have any illusions! Girls like attention from boys, loving dad or not, secrecy or not.

mammele26

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 1:30 am

amother wrote:

mammele26 wrote:

Op,

Op, your dh should first take the 'bit of time' he has for learning and rather invest it in his daughter. THEN, he should see where/how/when to fit in his learning. TIME IS OF ESSENCE HERE. He has all his life to learn. After he marries her off, he'll learn. Now's the time to raise her with mesiras nefesh. Sometimes, mesiras nefesh means giving up ruchnius. If he makes time for her once (or even twice) a week, he is not becoming close to her. He shouldn't give her 'some time' yotzeh tzu zein. He should give her as much time as she is willing to accept from him. He has to be willing to give her AT LEAST what that boy is giving her. I'm not saying that it's healthy for your dh to run after his daughter like that boy is, but you get the idea...

And another word for your dh if it's hard for him to give up his learning for now: After 120, a neshoma suffers more if it leaves a child that's ch"v not ehrlich, than it suffers for not having learned... And btw, his neshoma could suffer for learning when he had a more important job to do...

The fact that your dh is giving up on precious learning time for her, is also a very strong message of love for your daughter (as we know, action speaks louder than words- you could tell her you love her a million times- this actually PROVES it.)

Hatzlacha rabba!

slushiemom

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 3:12 am

mammele26 wrote:

amother wrote:

mammele26 wrote:

Op,

Mammele, you put what I was thinking into perfect words.

amother

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 3:29 am

giving up his measly few hours of learning a week has nothing to do with him spending time with her or not. He learns at night, way too late for them to be spending time together anyway. I thought I would be the last to say this but learning is important. He has struggled so much to find time and energy to learn after a full day at work that I am not going to support him dumping it now. He learns 3x a week. I don't think it will be detrimental to continue with that.
As I said Sundays are a good time to find time with her which is what I will encourage. A father learning also sets a tone, showing that Torah is also important, aswell as family. If he was learning all day and all night I hear your suggestion but that is not so. OP

momgrandmom

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 10:01 am

Pninat Chachma is really a school for girls from a dati leumi background that want to be charedi. They do bagruyot. There are very high level girls that go there. I know several, although no on who is ther now. It is run by the same menahel as the Sniff. You can see if it is appropriate. They are a little less strict iwth dress, eg: long skirts, things like that. It is a high level scholastically. I don't know if they want charedi girls who are looking for more openness. What about Afikei Da'at (Ithink that's the name I always get mixed up with the American seminary.) Or DuPark, but that has changed in the past few years, much more French. You have to look into it.

chocolate chips

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 3:34 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

I called the young woman who went to Peninat Chinuch and heard very bad things. I cannot recommend it. (Anyone who thinks this is LH can disregard it.)

I had a friend who went to peninat hachinuch...I dont know alot about the school, I have met some of her friends from there and what I can say is that it kept my friend from tipping off the path and she loved it there.
Im not from israel and I really cant say what the school is like but I would suggest that it is found out if the school will be goodfor the girl and not if its a good school in general.