Help come up with good come backs for dd to use on this girl

amother

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 1:03 am

My daughter has been complaining about this girl several years already who always YELLS when she doesn't like something a person says or if someone expresses an opinion she disagrees with.

She particularly dislikes my dd and yells at her the most even when there is a whole group of girls saying the same thing.
For example the girls were discussing the issue of whether Israel should trade all those terrorists for Gilad Shalit and some girls felt they should and some felt they shouldn't.
Others yet made even more controversial comments. So this girls turns on my daughter and starts screaming and yelling at her and calling her disgusting.

Of course I know that the Gilad Shalit topic is a heated and emotional topic but this is just an example of many other instances where she screams at DD instead of arguing respectfully.

So I was telling DD that she needs to come up with some sharp retorts/come backs to shut this girl up once and for all.

We have some sharp witted and clever ladies on imamother, perhaps you can help us come up with some good come backs to put this girl in her place.

we have no intention to hurt her, just to shut her up already because it's not a comfortable situation for my daughter to be in.

amother

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 1:59 am

You seem like a very caring yet a bit overprotective mommy.

The right thing would probably be for you to sit Down With DD & let her brainstorm while you sit there, kids often shock adults into how simple it is to solve their own problems. Teach her how to problem solve independently, its a skill needed for life. Comebacks never do the trick, why teach your daughter to be mean?

Its very enticing for you as a mother to protect your little chick but its a great opportunity to teach her a lot of very urgent skills needed for her future. Your DD needs to learn self defense in general. She needs to learn how to get someone to stop hurting her without being rude in return. Teach her about affective communication & what to do when youre being bullied. Comebacks wont do the trick. It will definitely feed the problem.

TRUST ME, IVE BEEN THE VICTIM TOO.

ora_43

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 2:06 am

For teens, I think the best response would be a snub.

- once she finishes screaming, say coolly "are you done?" Then turn and resume the conversation with someone else.
- once she finishes, raise one eyebrow and say "okay then..." in a tone of "wow you're crazy." Then resume conversation with others.

Or just call her on it. "Why are you screaming at me, we're just having a conversation." Or "if this makes you so angry, maybe we should just talk about something else."

Isramom8

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 2:08 am

When I was growing up, my friend's older sister was a horrible bully. (Eventually she rebelled by intermarrying. Just saying.) Comebacks did indeed make things worse, because then she spoke more sarcastically and hurtfully.

You know what helped? Being nice to her! In a real way - like once I found a note she had dropped with a friend's phone number and I returned it to her. She was sincerely appreciative!

People who behave like this are seeking love.

YummyMommy

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 2:11 am

Isramom8 wrote:

When you talk so loudly I can't hear you.

Loud noise doesn't speak to me.

Your tone of voice doesn't meet my standards.

I have a medical challenge with processing loud speech.

It's your turn to speak. Do you have anything to add? Do you have anything else to add? Okay, now it's my turn to speak and your turn to listen.

I love these comebacks. Not necessarily for a teen, but I'm bookmarking them for one someone yells at me Smile

amother

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 3:24 am

amother wrote:

You seem like a very caring yet a bit overprotective mommy.
The right thing would probably be for you to sit Down With DD & let her brainstorm while you sit there, kids often shock adults into how simple it is to solve their own problems. Teach her how to problem solve independently, its a skill needed for life. Comebacks never do the trick, why teach your daughter to be mean?

Its very enticing for you as a mother to protect your little chick but its a great opportunity to teach her a lot of very urgent skills needed for her future. Your DD needs to learn self defense in general. She needs to learn how to get someone to stop hurting her without being rude in return. Teach her about affective communication & what to do when youre being bullied. Comebacks wont do the trick. It will definitely feed the problem.

TRUST ME, IVE BEEN THE VICTIM TOO.

I hear what you are saying, yet I've been advised on a number of occasions by a couple of different professionals to help her come up with comebacks for various other social situations. (dd is doing better nowadays but she is a sensitive soul and has had her ups and downs socially)
Yep, they advised comebacks.
I don't want her to be mean and I don't think a cleverly worded comeback has to be mean. Putting a person in their place is not mean. Sometimes it's a chessed

Isramom8 wrote:

You know what helped? Being nice to her! In a real way - like once I found a note she had dropped with a friend's phone number and I returned it to her. She was sincerely appreciative!

People who behave like this are seeking love.

she might be seeking love but ...

ora_43 wrote:

Maybe bullies are seeking love, but they still need a good smackdown once and again to remind them that they can't treat people that way.

That!

seriously this kid really needs someone to give her what ora calls a smackdown for her own good.

DD has overheard her a number of times yelling at her mother and was shocked!!
she said her mother didn't even tell her off she just took it as if she was the kid and the girl was the mother.
She also orders her mother around and her mother allows it.

thanks those of you who provided come backs, keep em coming they are great Smile

Yocheved84

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 9:22 am

ora_43 wrote:

- once she finishes screaming, say coolly "are you done?" Then turn and resume the conversation with someone else.
- once she finishes, raise one eyebrow and say "okay then..." in a tone of "wow you're crazy." Then resume conversation with others.

"

Making the old yeller look crazy in front of others--humiliation--works wonders. Good call. This girl clearly learned this behavior somewhere, and good for you and your daughter for a) watching our for your DD and b) doing a mtizvah by possibly teaching this girl the right way to comport herself

Chayalle

Fri, Feb 18 2011, 9:34 am

I like Ora's suggestions. Also, one thing I've learned as a parent that I find helpful with adults too, is to simply parrot them back to themselves so that they can hear how they sound.

For example, girl yells at your DD that she is a disgusting, dumb, idiotic, whatever...(I don't even like using these words in type!).

Your DD responds, coolly and collectedly "OK, I see you have a need to loudly tell me that I am disgusting, dumb, etc....anything else?"

Let the girl know how she sounds, and what she is saying. She might be surprised to hear herself, once and for all.

octopus

Sun, Feb 20 2011, 1:23 pm

I think that ora's suggestion of "are you done?" to be very snooty and really not nice. Who are you the one to decide that someone else needs a "smack down." Like someone else wrote, you should always teach your dd to take the high road. I highly doubt that any proffesional in this situation would say "yeah, come up with a comeback to humiliate someone else." Perhaps they meant it in other areas of life when one has to speak up for oneself, but not to hurt others. The girl that yells a lot OBVIOUSLY has social issues and is a little off. I'm sure all the girls feel the exact same way about her as your dd does. Either ignore or say that please do not yell.

amother

Sun, Feb 20 2011, 7:50 pm

Thanks everybody for your help and advice

Merrymom wrote:

Some people come from families that love to yell and debate, they don't even realize that others are bothered by this so I think the best thing would be for your daughter to privately discuss this with her.

nah I don't think she doesn't realize she is bothering her. She has always hated my daughter and has lied about her and tried to get her in trouble in the past. Talking with her won't help

octopus wrote:

I think that ora's suggestion of "are you done?" to be very snooty and really not nice. Who are you the one to decide that someone else needs a "smack down."

If someone is persistently hurting someone else then yes they deserve to be put in their place.
My daughter is very far from being snooty so I don't have a problem with her learning some self preservation for the odd occasion that she needs to get someone off her back

Quote:

Like someone else wrote, you should always teach your dd to take the high road.

And I always do but taking the high rode is all very well and fine in general but if someone is persistently attacking her she is in her rights to defend herself even if defending herself may be considered by some to be snooty or nasty.

Quote:

I highly doubt that any proffesional in this situation would say "yeah, come up with a comeback to humiliate someone else." Perhaps they meant it in other areas of life when one has to speak up for oneself, but not to hurt others.

Why are you equating a come back with humiliating someone?
yes that's exactly what we mean, this is a situation in life that she needs to speak up for herself and she is the one being hurt, not the one doing the hurting.
The girl is already humiliating herself and my daughter to begin with. Learning how to say things that will shut her up is doing her a favor in my opinion

Quote:

The girl that yells a lot OBVIOUSLY has social issues and is a little off. I'm sure all the girls feel the exact same way about her as your dd does. Either ignore or say that please do not yell.

yeah like that works,

come on ladies, seriously, haven't you ever experienced people like that, that doing the right thing by them doesn't get you anywhere?

This isn't a Frum teenage novel with totally unrealistic stories of how girls suddenly realize how mean they are being and change their ways.
This is real life! and ignoring or being nice doesn't always work.

skazm

Sun, Feb 20 2011, 8:06 pm

hehe re: Depressed 'like'

I think that she is someone who deserves a smackdown, and I am someone who can definitely say it just from reading this. Octopus, with all respect, I turn your question back on you and say who are you to say to anyone suffering from a bully who deserves a smackdown or not?

Then again, we're frum now so we can't go that route ...no smackdowns, fun as they may be.

In any case, I think an educator (do they have school shrinks in BY?) should be called into this. I don't think anyone should make it your daughter's responsibility to show all the love to this girl - though it is a huge example of ahavas yisrael if she does (then again, we are not Xtians here and there is no mitzva by us to turn the other cheek.)

I think your daughter should make it clear at all times that this poor little bully seeking love's abuse of your DD means nothing to your DD and that she could care less. She is probably jealous of your DD re: something.

Harassment is harassment- and I'm sure if this bully is as kookoo as you say, other people can sense it and they probably don't like her much- btw, she may be picking on your daughter because your daughter seems weak. Try helping your daughter have self-esteem irrelevant of what people think - it may mean taking up a new skill, or doing chesed, or doing anything she is proud of that has nothing to do with her little social circle at school.

It's hard, but hey, I did it. And I was the fat kid in public school so I know what I'm talking about. Maybe Hashem is putting her in this test of not caring what people think so she can face later challenges in life (like staying frum regardless of ridicule and peer pressure, for example) . Maybe let your daughter know that Hashem doesn't give her a test she can't pass so she must be pretty strong because it's hard to deal with a bully.

BTW I also know that bullying leads to violence, and this bully may in fact initiate some kind of it (and your DD should be ready for that).

Good luck.

amother

Sun, Feb 20 2011, 9:05 pm

skasm I agree whole heartedly that my daughter needs to build some self confidence. the problem is that not having much confidence myself I am ill equiped to pass on the skills to her.
I've been trying to suggest to her that she either sees the school counsellor or I take her somewhere else to build her confidence but she won't have a bar of it and get's really upset when I suggest it.
she thinks that by talking about seeing someone it's like I'm saying she has problems. I tried telling her that many people see someone at some point in their lives and it is not a statement on the person that they are have "problems". Rather it's just a tool to help learn stategies for dealing with things that are bothering us. She doesn't want to hear about it and I'm at a loss.

Blue jay

Sun, Feb 20 2011, 10:12 pm

First of all :

Where is the teacher? If all the girls are having a guided discussion, then the teacher should be allowing each girl to voice her opinion in a safe and receptive enviroment. If your daugter feels slighted of her chance to voice her opinion, then she should discuss this with her morah. If need be you should discuss this with the teacher as well. Supporting your daughter on the issue at hand hear is THE BEST WAY TO BUILD BOTH OF YOUR SELF ESTEEM.

Second, your daughter does not need to be preached self esteem, she needs to feell accomplishment, and most of all feel valued by her mother. You may be a shy fly or someone who is not assertive or someone who has personal flaws but that has nothing to do with you daughters self esteem. Just love her and support her ,

Im a big advocate for after school activities that help build any teens self esteem,. Music, art, soccer, mom and daughter time at the bowling alley etc. Make her feel special.