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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Guests
amother
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 Fri, Feb 25 2011, 9:53 am
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Find a solution everyone is fine with. There's no right and wrong here.
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DrMom
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 12:07 pm
| moonstone wrote: | I had never heard of such strict separation until recently- it seems that there is a very strong push to keep boys and girls from socializing- you hear about teenagers not being allowed to go to pizza places and such because there's a fear that they'll hang out with members of the opposite zex. A friend was in Jerusalem recently and told me of a restaurant that had separate FLOORS for boys and girls (though families could eat together, I think).
Personally, I think it's wrong, not to mention counter-productive, but that's a different thread. |
As I understood the situation, the OP only has one child: a baby. So the isssue is not mixing between the children, but rather between the female members of the OP's friend's family and the OP's husband. (And the friend's DH and OP).
Maybe the men can stay in a separate apartment?
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abound
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 12:40 pm
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I would try to find an apartment near me for her to stay. If you are financially able offer to rent over shabbat, young couples in Israel love to rent their apartment for shabbos.
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Isramom8
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 2:07 pm
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I was thinking about this thread today. I'm not even sure why girls are discouraged from sleeping over at friends' homes. But I was thinking that parents might feel unconfortable being intimate knowing that their daughter's teenage friends hanging around. In Chareidi areas, apartments are generally small and house a lot of people.
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supermama2
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 2:27 pm
| de_goldy wrote: | No real advice, just want to say that this is eye opening for me. I have never heard of this, ever!
Would you have them over for a supper during the week? Or meet them in a park halfway for a picnic? |
Yeah of course. The issue is the sleeping over.
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supermama2
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 2:29 pm
| DrMom wrote: | | moonstone wrote: | I had never heard of such strict separation until recently- it seems that there is a very strong push to keep boys and girls from socializing- you hear about teenagers not being allowed to go to pizza places and such because there's a fear that they'll hang out with members of the opposite zex. A friend was in Jerusalem recently and told me of a restaurant that had separate FLOORS for boys and girls (though families could eat together, I think).
Personally, I think it's wrong, not to mention counter-productive, but that's a different thread. |
As I understood the situation, the OP only has one child: a baby. So the isssue is not mixing between the children, but rather between the female members of the OP's friend's family and the OP's husband. (And the friend's DH and OP).
Maybe the men can stay in a separate apartment? |
Sorry for not being more clear  The only GIRL I have is a baby.. I have a 10 y.o. boy as oldest then younger boys.
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supermama2
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 2:34 pm
ultimately I didn't ask my friend to come over w/o her older daughters. It was decided that since I wouldn't do it that I should not ask her to so it stays status quo... Thanks so much for adding to this thread, it's been food for thought. I don't want to lose a friend of several years due to hashkafic differences like this. 
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DrMom
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 2:52 pm
| SarahO. wrote: | | DrMom wrote: | | moonstone wrote: | I had never heard of such strict separation until recently- it seems that there is a very strong push to keep boys and girls from socializing- you hear about teenagers not being allowed to go to pizza places and such because there's a fear that they'll hang out with members of the opposite zex. A friend was in Jerusalem recently and told me of a restaurant that had separate FLOORS for boys and girls (though families could eat together, I think).
Personally, I think it's wrong, not to mention counter-productive, but that's a different thread. |
As I understood the situation, the OP only has one child: a baby. So the isssue is not mixing between the children, but rather between the female members of the OP's friend's family and the OP's husband. (And the friend's DH and OP).
Maybe the men can stay in a separate apartment? |
Sorry for not being more clear The only GIRL I have is a baby.. I have a 10 y.o. boy as oldest then younger boys. |
Oh, I understand the issue now. Thanks -- I was totally confused.
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hadasa
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 3:26 pm
I understand your problem with having pre-adolescent girls sleep over if you have only boys that age.
Maybe one day an opportunity will come up, like your boys will have a Shabbaton or something, and then you can invite them.
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Kayza
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 7:41 pm
| SarahO. wrote: | | My Rav. would not alllow such a situation out of modesty alone. |
Really? Did you actually ask him, or are you just assuming?
Of course, since I don't know you or your family, I can't speak to what is appropriate for you, but plenty of Chareidim actually don't have this as a set rule. Sometimes an exception is made only for family, and sometimes it's broader.
The bottom line here is that if you feel that this is not appropriate, or your Rov really tells you it's forbidden, then that's what you have to deal with. But, I suspect you will do a lot better with your friend if you don't paint with an overly broad brush. As you can see, there is another Chareidi family that doesn't see it this way. Are you really going to declare this unknown family is "not really" chareidi / Chasidish? I also think that you will do a lot better if you don't come across as being "frummer" than your friend. Most people don't respond well to that.
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supermama2
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 11:08 pm
| Kayza wrote: | | SarahO. wrote: | | My Rav. would not alllow such a situation out of modesty alone. |
Really? Did you actually ask him, or are you just assuming?
Of course, since I don't know you or your family, I can't speak to what is appropriate for you, but plenty of Chareidim actually don't have this as a set rule. Sometimes an exception is made only for family, and sometimes it's broader.
The bottom line here is that if you feel that this is not appropriate, or your Rov really tells you it's forbidden, then that's what you have to deal with. But, I suspect you will do a lot better with your friend if you don't paint with an overly broad brush. As you can see, there is another Chareidi family that doesn't see it this way. Are you really going to declare this unknown family is "not really" chareidi / Chasidish? I also think that you will do a lot better if you don't come across as being "frummer" than your friend. Most people don't respond well to that. |
Of course I do not "declare" this other family "not chassidish"...I don't know them personally and wouldn't judge anyway. I just thought for my lack of knowledge that a chasiddish family would not have such a mix of overnight guests but that's not issue of my post. I do not come across as being "frummer" than my dear friend. We have had discussions b/c she's become almost anti-charedi, that I have my way and she has hers but we focus instead on why we've been friends all these years. This is why in the end I just dropped the idea of asking her to come over w/o her older girls. As much as I want to spend time with my friend I can't take the chance of insulting her. I might ask casually sometime if her girls ever sleep out over Shabbos and see what happens. Otherwise, I can wait til Pesach break from school then our families can get together for the DAY. Thanks again for all the replies, I really appreciated this sounding board.
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sequoia
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 11:11 pm
| SarahO. wrote: |
We have had discussions b/c she's become almost anti-charedi. |
I wonder why.
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supermama2
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Sat, Feb 26 2011, 11:58 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | SarahO. wrote: |
We have had discussions b/c she's become almost anti-charedi. |
I wonder why. |
Umm thanks for knowing my best friend and I so well..I was waiting for this kind of comment 
Is there a way to go ahead and remove this thread now? 
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DrMom
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Sun, Feb 27 2011, 1:17 am
| Kayza wrote: | | SarahO. wrote: | | My Rav. would not alllow such a situation out of modesty alone. |
Really? Did you actually ask him, or are you just assuming?
Of course, since I don't know you or your family, I can't speak to what is appropriate for you, but plenty of Chareidim actually don't have this as a set rule. Sometimes an exception is made only for family, and sometimes it's broader.
The bottom line here is that if you feel that this is not appropriate, or your Rov really tells you it's forbidden, then that's what you have to deal with. But, I suspect you will do a lot better with your friend if you don't paint with an overly broad brush. As you can see, there is another Chareidi family that doesn't see it this way. Are you really going to declare this unknown family is "not really" chareidi / Chasidish? I also think that you will do a lot better if you don't come across as being "frummer" than your friend. Most people don't respond well to that. |
The OP is just following her rav. Not all Charedi families have the same rav. She didn't say the other family was not really charedi, just that their rav sees this issue differently than her rav.
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Kayza
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Sun, Feb 27 2011, 10:41 am
| DrMom wrote: |
The OP is just following her rav. Not all Charedi families have the same rav. She didn't say the other family was not really charedi, just that their rav sees this issue differently than her rav. |
1. She never asked her Rav.
2. You are correct that different Rabbanim will say different things, but that's not how she presented it. "This is the way my Rav paskens." will generally go over better than "This is what Chareidim do."
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iluvy
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Mon, Feb 28 2011, 10:50 pm
| zaq wrote: |
And I just figured out why I would be so hurt if a friend asked me to leave my ds or dd at home: because you are saying they're not welcome. If you really did welcome them, then you would do what I said above--get rid of your kids, not mine. |
I would not feel hurt if my friend wanted to have her own kids home for Shabbos more than she wanted to have mine. I would think it was strange if she said, "Let me pack this bunch off so I can spend time with your darlings!"
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