If family wont eat in your home...

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 10:30 am

Ok, just wanted to get all of your opinions because this has been causing me alot of upsetness.

One of my brothers got married about three months ago. For the two years before he got engaged and married he ate at our house every single day, and came to us for all the Shabbos meals even when he was invited elsewhere.

Once he was engaged, he would come to meals to us alone, even when we invited his Kallah.. He told us that during the engagement period they didnt want to do meals together... Okay, I mean we are family, its not like they are going to random peoples houses, but okay. During their engagement though, they did eat together several times at her siblings, but whatever. Not judging. Maybe she was uncomfortable sitting at a table with her new future in laws, so didnt mind at all.

Since they have been married, they have not come to us for any meals we have invited them for. Each time they have a different excuse. They are newlyweds, so I really didnt think too much into it... If they said that one Shabbos wasnt good for them, I told them - no prob! Ill make a Shabbos meal again next week, like that you guys can come. Come the next week and they have a diff reason for not coming...

Both of my parents, and another one of my brothers told me that they think the reason that they have never come to our home is because of Kashrush... that my house isnt Kosher enough for them. He actually told that to my brother straight out.. that thats the reason he is avoiding coming to our home. The reason I am so upset is...
1. We are really good about keeping high standards of Kashrus, and this brother knows that!!
2. We JUST remodeled our whole kitchen. We were renting before, and now we own. We remodeled the whole kitchen top to bottom - - seperate sinks on different sides of the kitchen. Completely seperate milchig and flaishig counter. Everything granite and stainless steel - - easy to kasher... new stove/oven - the works... How could my kitchen NOT be kosher?? Everything is brand new!
3. I live in a very Chassidish community and I ONLY buy from our stores in this community. All the meat we serve is the highest standard of Chassidishe shchita, everything of course only cholov yisrael, and pas yisrael! I wouldnt even have access to buy anything else (as we dont have a car) in case he would ever suspect otherwise! (Why would he??)
4. Our house was kosher enough for him for YEARS before he got married, and now all of a sudden, we arent good enough??? What a chutzpa! What a slap in the face.

So maybe you can say its her... that she doesnt want to for whatever reason... she has never even been to my home. She has never seen my kitchen, never been to a meal, nothing... how can she judge my Kashrus level without having ever stepped foot into my home?

And even if so.. Im offended that she finds that her family is good enough Kashrus - all of her married siblings and inlaws are good to eat at, but so far she has not eaten in any of our families homes..

Just wanted to hear your thoughts...

Would you take it personally if your brother and sis in law wouldnt eat in your home?

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 12:24 pm

I dont want to put him on the spot or make him feel uncomfortable. Plus, if it is because of her, I dont want her to feel uncomfortable with me asking... Its a new marriage, and a really new relationship between me and her, and I dont want them to feel obligated to come.

At the same time, I am hurt and offended.

They have not yet eaten at anyone else in my family either, so I dont know if its just me, or everyone in my family. Regardless if its me, or my entire family, I still think its hurtful to imply that our kitchen is not as kosher as hers, or her families.

We are more modern then them - - we have a tv in our home, and I go out with a snood as well as a shaitel, but I think that it is wrong to judge me based on that when you have not even seen my kashrus standards or sat down and had a conversation with me.

My husband has smicha, and is technically a Rabbi. In order to get smicha you have to know the laws of Kashrus inside out... Yes, he wears jeans, and works a full time job to support his family...

Maybe I shouldnt be upset by it, I dont know. I think that alot has to do with the fact that he ate by us practically every day for years and never had a problem, and now, suddenly, we are not good enough.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 12:27 pm

A few thoughts here:

Firstly, it is perfectly legitimate for her to find her side of the family more acceptable that yours, if there really is a difference in kashrus policies between one side of the family and the other. If, for instance, her family eats only sh'chta X or always avoids Sh'chita Y, while you don't, you can't say that she doesn't have a right to stick to that standard.

Beyond that, instead of gossiping with the rest of your family about your brother, why don't you have a straight conversation with him. Tell him that you see that he has refused to eat at your house since he has gotten married, and the excuses have become hollow. You know there is a problem, and you are asking him for an honest answer. What is the problem, and what will it take to set things straight in his eyes. No comments about his wife or who has the "right" to do what.

Once you know what the story is, you can decide what you want to do about the situation.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

You have exactly two choices:

Either drop it and the hurt feelings or talk to him. What you are doing now - never mind the fact of this kind of posting - but gossiping with the family and dwelling on their chutzpah, and how wrong they are etc. is simply not acceptable. At best, there is a to of Loshon Horah and amplification of bad feeling. It's also quite possible that there is motzi shem ra (you have no clue as to the real reason, yet you are going on about how she is ignorantly judging you based on externals) and quite possibly making her quite as uncomfortable as you claim you don't want to make her. (You say that your brother spoke to his about you - how do you think THAT would make her feel.) And, it does say "Lo susne es achicha bilvavecha." This is a classic case. You are harboring huge resentment, making some serious accusations, but you are too "nice" to actually deal with it in a straightforward fashion.

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 12:44 pm

Kayza wrote:

amother wrote:

Ummmm, woah, look at how you just judged ME so harshly. Wow.

Firstly I have not gossiped to anyone in my family about it. I had no idea that he was even avoiding me until three of my family members brought it up to me on their own accord. Second, since they told me, I have not spoken to anyone in my family of the hurt I feel by it because I dont want to start any family drama. Ummmm... thats why Im posting on IMAMOTHER -- - to get it out, and seek advice, without including my family and turning it into something.

I want to/ and CONTINUE to have a good relationship with my brother. At the same time, I do have a right to feel hurt by this.

Right now, I do NOT want to rock this new relationship by bringing it up to them, and making my SIL and brother feel bad. Our relationship is not solid enough (because it is so new) to bring it up in a forthright manner. If it was with any other sister in law that I already have a relationship with, I would have no problem with talking openly. I dont feel like that is how I should start my relationship with them as a couple. What pray tell is so wrong with that?

Apple pie

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 12:55 pm

Quote:

OTOH, not speaking about it is creating resentment, tension in the family, (even in you don't speak about it to anyone, but you see that your sibligs have noticed and brought it up) and in the long term, will do more harm than a honest conversation with your brother. No need to make him feel uncomfortable: be as neutral as possible, no accusing, no passing judgement...

Oh, and I understand you being upset... Smile

freidasima

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 1:02 pm

Why does it bother you? Why should you care if your sister in law doesn't want to eat at your family's home? Is that the be all and end all of a relationship? So you aren't kosher enough for her, big deal...it's her business, not yours. She can very well say that she doesn't want to eat at a home where there is a TV, what's wrong with that?

Listen, in the cemetery where my father z"l is buried there are sections. he is in the very frum section for older people who had a television as opposed to the very frum section for older people who didn't have a television. Now go look at him (then) you wouldn't think he was the TV type. When he bought two plots for him and my mother may she live and be well, the chevra kadisha automatically put them in the section without the TV. and then one of them thought to ask because they realized that my father had lived in the goldene medineh...americhkah..."so Rov X, of course you don't have a shtus box in your house do you?"...and when my father said, yes, my wife watches it...they had to move their plots to the section for frum old men and women WITH a (rachmono litzlon) shtus box in the house.

That's the way it goes ladies...don't sweat it.

Apple pie

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 1:10 pm

freidasima wrote:

Tell me you are joking Freida Sima, different sections for TV owners?!!!!!! shock

intrigued

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 1:18 pm

freidasima wrote:

Because that is usually the way how people usually socialise. With food.

sarahd

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 1:20 pm

Kayza wrote:

I dunno about that. Isn't a woman supposed to take on her husband's minhagim, even when it comes to kashrus? If her family eats only shechita X and his only shechita Y, what happens?

(This was a very big problem with a cousin of mine whose wife came from a family that didn't eat meat. She refused to eat at her in-laws (my aunt and uncle) because they used meat - even though her husband did not have and was not planning to adopt that chumra. She also refused to cook meat for him.)