If family wont eat in your home...

shanie5

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 5:55 pm

sarahd wrote:

Kayza wrote:

I dunno about that. Isn't a woman supposed to take on her husband's minhagim, even when it comes to kashrus? If her family eats only shechita X and his only shechita Y, what happens?

(This was a very big problem with a cousin of mine whose wife came from a family that didn't eat meat. She refused to eat at her in-laws (my aunt and uncle) because they used meat - even though her husband did not have and was not planning to adopt that chumra. She also refused to cook meat for him.)

thats what I was thinking.

sarahd-did this cousin compromise with his wife.

Here is a DLKZ idea: maybe the kallah has very sensitive allergies and doesnt want to burden others with them. her family knows and is used to it. yours doesnt. And maybe she feels she its a major tircga for others to cook for her needs.

Chana Miriam S

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 7:11 pm

I am going to tell you what 'I ' would do. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Speak with your brother and clear the air. If his issue is kashrut, for whatever reason (and do NOT make him tell you in case it is her) tell him that you would be happy to have them over with sealed food from kosher places on paper plates.

Don't let your pride get in your way. Never mind how kosher you are or are not. Truly being welcoming means sucking it up and making it work. As you get to know each other you can work out what her problem or his problem is, but at least they will know that you understand and you care enough to try.

What he did for years is not fair game. People change and sometimes they get stricter. Don't try to guess what the problem is. You don't really need to know, you just need to know how to solve it.

Raizle

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 7:58 pm

Kayza wrote:

A few thoughts here:

Firstly, it is perfectly legitimate for her to find her side of the family more acceptable that yours, if there really is a difference in kashrus policies between one side of the family and the other. If, for instance, her family eats only sh'chta X or always avoids Sh'chita Y, while you don't, you can't say that she doesn't have a right to stick to that standard.Beyond that, instead of gossiping with the rest of your family about your brother, why don't you have a straight conversation with him. Tell him that you see that he has refused to eat at your house since he has gotten married, and the excuses have become hollow. You know there is a problem, and you are asking him for an honest answer. What is the problem, and what will it take to set things straight in his eyes. No comments about his wife or who has the "right" to do what.

Once you know what the story is, you can decide what you want to do about the situation.

I was thinking of that and going to say so but then I thought, and what about her husband. How is it that SHE get's to decide what shchita they are going to use. If she is from a different chassidus or sect then generally one follows their husband.

shanie5 that's a great dlkz idea

I say open OP should open it up with her brother and find out what is going on. Starting a relationship with resentment is not a good way to start. Maybe they don't even realize they are offending you.

saw50st8

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 8:28 pm

sarahd wrote:

Kayza wrote:

When we got married, my husband ate regular tuna fish, but my family only eats it with a mashgiach tmidi. So while I didn't make him take this on, I don't eat tuna at my in-laws (but was upfront about it). And we don't buy certain brands of tuna for our house. But DH and my kids eat it, I just felt like I couldn't.

OP, I recommend you talk to your brother and ask if there is anything to make them feel more comfortable. My sister has certain things she doesn't eat (kashrus wise) or checks differently than we do, but we know what it is so we can take care of it.

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 8:39 pm

You should understand from a sil point of view, that it's very very difficult to have certain standards and know that you'll insult all of your dh's family if you stand by them. I give your sil alot of credit for standing by her standards, I didn't and have paid the price many times. At this point my kids have to get a warning, we don't eat ____'s salad, she doesn't check her vegetables, we don't eat _______'s meat she buys from a butcher I don't trust, we don't eat _________ they're known to have worms and are uncheckable, no eating at Friendly's when ____ wants to take you out, they don't have a hechsher on everything and ______doesn't check. For years I did eat at my ils, I just "didn't like" half of the things served. Finally I've spoken to them about a few things but for the most part I don't really trust them. It's a very uncomfortable position to be in so try to see past your hurt and maybe go out together to eat at a place that sil approves of.

Raizle

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 9:26 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

sarahd wrote:

Kayza wrote:

That's all fine and nice but you don't prevent your DH from eating at your in-laws

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:15 pm

I am not insulted by family members that would not eat in my house. There is nothing to be insulted about. You can't twist someone's arm to eat in your house. Growing up in a community where ppl did not have the same religious standards as I did, I understand that ppl got insulted when I couldn't accept an invitation or asked to see the hashgocha on a bag of chips. So I don't get insulted when my kashrus levels aren't good enough for someone else. Even if there whole premise on not eating in my house is based on chumra.

I definitely would not eat at my siblings in-laws houses even if my dh would (and I'm not quite sure if he would). Having one dishwasher for milchigs and fleishchigs with separate compartments is not really my speed.

I would just say get over it.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:32 pm

amother wrote:

Ummmm, woah, look at how you just judged ME so harshly. Wow.

I can only judge by what you have written. I know nothing else about you.

Quote:

Firstly I have not gossiped to anyone in my family about it. I had no idea that he was even avoiding me until three of my
family members brought it up to me on their own accord.

So it's your family members gossiping. It's STILL a problem.

Quote:

I want to/ and CONTINUE to have a good relationship with my brother. At the same time, I do have a right to feel hurt by this.

If you want to have a good relationship with your brother you are going to have to ask him - NOT ACCUSE HIM OR HIS WIFE- what is going on. Either that, or accept that this is the way things are going to be. Reality is that you can't have a good relationship with the kind of resentment and thoughts you are expressing here. They will inevitably poison what is left of your relationship.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:36 pm

sarahd wrote:

Kayza wrote:

I dunno about that. Isn't a woman supposed to take on her husband's minhagim, even when it comes to kashrus? If her family eats only shechita X and his only shechita Y, what happens?

That is between husband and wife. If there was no prior agreement and there is disagreement in the marriage, then generally it goes to the husband. But, they have a total right to do tings otherwise.

Quote:

(This was a very big problem with a cousin of mine whose wife came from a family that didn't eat meat. She refused to eat at her in-laws (my aunt and uncle) because they used meat - even though her husband did not have and was not planning to adopt that chumra. She also refused to cook meat for him.)

That sounds like a very different issue. From what you are saying, her husband never agreed to this and she unilaterally imposed this. In that case, probably a Rov would have told her to quit it. But, that is because the husband never agreed, from what you say.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:40 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

op, approach your brother with an offer.

"bro, I really miss having you over for meals, and I'd really like to get to know sil better. I suspect the reason you don't come anymore are for kashrus standards. do you think your wife could explain her standards for me so I can accommodate you? I don't want her to feel you both can't come to us for a shabbos once in a while. I'd like to find out what the problem is so I can see if it's possible for me to change my routine if necessary."

I would stick to the first and last sentences. As much as the OP is going to try to be non-judgmental, there is very little doubt that it's going to be heard that way. And, in any case, if she wants to build a good relationship with SIL, indicating that SIL is the one with a problem is not going to be very helpful - it's highly likely to create defensiveness. Asking what the problem is - without indicating WHO has a problem, or what kind of problem, and indicating a willingness to try to accommodate things, is much safer.

Kayza

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:45 pm

Raizle wrote:

True, but there are many exceptions, and that's perfectly ok, if the couple both agree. Again, the OP really doesn't know anything. The only way to move forward is to ask a simple - neutral, non-accusatory - question. Especially since Kashrus may not necessarily be the whole story.

saw50st8

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

Are you talking about the Fisher Paykal drawer dishwashers? What's wrong with those? I know quite a few (very frum) people who use those.

amother

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 8:31 am

It's interesting. One of the outgrowths of kashrus is that keeping kosher acts as a barrier between Am Yisrael and other nations (non jews) We don't know if this is one of the purposes of hilchos kashrus, but it does a very good job in keeping us apart. If you can't eat at the same table with your neighbor or colleague, you will not mingle socially, romantically or otherwise.

But now, with everyone into separate hechsherim and schitas, what all these chumras are doing is driving a wedge between Jew and fellow Jew, even between brother and sister. If you are more machmir than your friend, even if you won't admit it, if you are honest with yourself - you feel you are a better Jew and coming closer to ratzon Hashem. In fact, what these chumras do is increase Sinas Chinom. I am better than you....You are not as good as me .... We can't eat together,...our children can't go to eachother's houses, maybe they shouldn't play together......hmmm, I really need a different school for my children,,,,marrying into eachother's families will definitely cause problems....

Can this possibly be what Hashem intended? I can't believe that! Kashrus and other halachos are supposed to bind us together - not drive us apart!

I for one, am machmir not to be machmir!

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 10:16 am

chanamiriam wrote:

This is it.

If you manage to do it, OP, we all owe you a lot of respect. It's hard to do. It's hard not to feel defensive while doing it. But if you can really remove the resentment from your heart and search for a solution that will work for both of you, then you should bring it up with your brother. Prepare yourself for the fact that you may not like what you hear, and then just smile and say, "Oh, sure, I understand that you'd prefer I don't X when you come. Not a problem. Would it work if I did Y instead?"

You'll be showing yourself as a truly selfless person. Tough to do, I know. I hope that I would have the inner strength to do it with no resentment at all; in all honesty, I'm not sure I would. But you'll be building worlds if you do...

(P.S. Has no one considered that it may be the fact that sil feels uncomfortable in general with her dh's family, and is just in her own "shana rishona world" where she rationalizes that if she doesn't deal with it, it will go away? That's nothing specific against you, OP - most new kallahs are less comfortable with dh's family than with their own. And your brother may just be giving in due to shalom bayis. Again, nothing personal at all.)

amother

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 10:53 am

amother wrote:

It's not a minhag not to eat bugs, it's an issur d'araisah along with other things like keeping Shabbos and bris milah.