My mother wants to be 'honored' if I have a bris

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amother

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:19 pm

My mother as told me, in no uncertain terms, that if I have a bris, she wants to be honored, preferably with the role of Kvaterin.

My mother is not religious (not that this has anything to do with my decision about how to 'honor' her. I'm just saying this to put this whole story into context for you). My mother has always felt that her children should honor her as much as possible, and never feel that we do enough. I was raised Sephardi and now married Ashkenazi. My mother is very upset that I won't name a child after her.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there's a way I can give my mother a little honor at a bris (if I end up having a boy), without giving her the role of Kvaterin. In addition, you should know that my mother does not accept that she can be honored through my father (ie. be honored through the fact that my father could be the sandak).

I'm frustrated, as you can imagine. I've explained to her that the kvater/kvaterin role is usually reserved for a young couple who is having difficulty having kids, or for another young couple that you'd like to honor. I think it's weird to have my mother in that role, don't you?

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:25 pm

I dont think its weird at all. I have been to several brissim where grandparents or other older relatives are kvatter. If you want to honor someone else as well, you can have more than one kvatter. It's not that uncommon. And you will have the huge zechus of being mekayem kibud eim at the same time as you are mekayem the mitzva of giving your son a bris.

I would definitely do it.

unexpected

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:25 pm

I have had my mother as kvater for a bris. It is not unusual at all, in fact it is really a big segula for anyone in need of a yeshua. If you have no one urgent who is claiming kvater, there is no reason not to give it to your mother. Think of the mitzva you'll get!

Peanut2

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:51 pm

It's traditional in some communities for the grandparents to be kvatters.
It also makes sense that she wants to be honored separately from your father, and since this role exists...
Why not?

Tal

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:57 pm

I agree with what was already written about the mother beeing "Kvater". but kvater is usually given to a couple. and if you want your father to be sandak, ask your mother which she prefers. Explain the honor of the sandak! (a whole shul doesn't say tachanun where he davens that day - even not at the location of the bris!)
I wanted to mention the name. If your parents are sfaradim and their minhag is to name for them while they are alive, what is the problem? (if you like the name!).

yummymummy

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 5:58 pm

We honored my husband's older brother and his wife with kvater at the bris of one of my son's, it doesn't have to be reserved for a younger couple. Unless you had someone else specifically in mind, I think it would be nice to honor your mother, especially since it will mean so much to her.

sky

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 6:21 pm

I would 100% percent give your mother kvater. It does not have to be used for a young couple it could be given to anyone. We gave it to a middle aged couple. There is another thread going on right now discussing this but it is a segula for anything - parnasa, etc. I don't think it is worth insulting someone to give someone else the zechus. In such a case I think that kibud av and shalom would take priority over giving to a young couple - let that be a zechus for yourselves that you did that.

You could also have your mother carry out the baby to the k'vater. In another thread people were mentioning that they have multiple k'vaters. So you can make your mother one of the femal k'vaters. Like have her carry the baby into the hall and pass her to the other k'vater before the mechitza who will then pass to her own husband. This way your father will be sandeck. Then you can have your mother also carry the baby from k'vater to outside of the hall at the end.

life'sgreat

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 6:33 pm

amother wrote:

I'll repeat:

KVATTER IS NOT MEANT SPECIFICALLY AS A SEGULAH FOR INFERTILITY. THERE IS NO SOURCE FOR THAT AND THERE IS NO REASON TO CONSTANTLY GIVE IT TO INFERTILE COUPLES.

There, that's better. Kvatter can be given to ANYone. Your mother needs to choose between her husband being sandek (which is a VERY special honor) or them doing kvatter. She can also be the one to bring in the baby to give to the kvatterin.

wifey

Fri, Apr 29 2011, 7:18 pm

My mom and MIL walked the baby in, passed it to the kvatters...would that be a happy medium?

mo5

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 6:33 am

Both my parents and my in-laws have been kvatter/in for my sons.
Not at all a problem. (and my FIL was sandak at the bris too.)

freidasima

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 2:42 pm

You can give anyone and everyone kvatter. You can have 120 kvatters if you want at the bris. Where does it say in our ancient sources that it's a segulah for x? That concept developed over time because a bris is a birth is a pregnancy so one says that it's a segulah for pregnancy.

Sorry to be a bit cynical about segulos but that's like saying that by lighting chanukah candles it's a segulah not to become a pyromaniac?

Give your mother respect and make her kvatterin (and why not give the child's second name for her if she and you are sefaradi, it's such a nice thing to do!)

RPESN

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 4:56 pm

Kvatter is also a segula for arichas yomim, a few of us have given my parents that kibbud. Hatzlocha resolving the issue easily.

Isramom8

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 4:59 pm

My MIL took the baby from me and passed him to the kvater (friend of mine experiencing IF). MIL's idea. Whatever. My friend had a baby, so all's well that ends well.

But I'm relieved that she didn't say to give any baby of mine her name.

hadasa

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 5:08 pm

We've had older couple or mother/son Kvatters.
You might want to ask a Rav if it's OK to have a couple who doesn't keep TH. Or not have them pass the baby directly to each other, but to have another Kvatter couple in between.

red sea

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 9:25 pm

As an aside, I know inter ashkenaz - sfard couples where the husband is the ashkenaz one, who do name when its the wifes "turn" after living relatives on the sfard side of the family. You may be able to do that as well, did you look into it?

Mommy3.5

Sat, Apr 30 2011, 11:55 pm

My grandparents were kvatter once. Also had 2 older married couples as kvatter. It can be anyone.

I also know a sefardi girl married to Ashkenazi who named for her parents, and they are a yeshivish kollel couple, before you rule out naming afteer your parents, speak to a rav, you may be surprised at the answer. Especially if you say how important it is to your mother.

WWG1WGA

Sun, May 01 2011, 1:02 am

I think the biggest thing you can do right now is honor your mothers request and let her carry the baby. your mother may not be religious but she sure knows her traditions well. After all, she raised you and even if you marry ashkenaz there are many ways to do what she likes. I let my mother and mother in law carry the baby by my baby's bris. One carried to the sandak, and the other from the sandak. And as far as the name goes. your husband my be ashkenaz but he might not mind breaking his minhag to name his child after his in laws. His parents do not have to be named. ask, you might be surprised?

Mama Bear

Sun, May 01 2011, 1:58 am

I gave my in laws kvatter and they were so honored. It's NOT meant to be given to a couple who doesnt have kids yet - on theh contrary,, it's a painful segulah to accept. give it to your parents; it's the 2nd biggest honor at a bris, after sandek.

ChossidMom

Sun, May 01 2011, 2:30 am

At my last bris, my mil a"h was kvater along with my not yet married niece (her granddaughter).

My opinion? If it's important to your mother to receive this kibud, you should absolutely give it to her. Doesn't matter if she's right or wrong. She's your mom and you have this tremendous opportunity to give her just the right kavod that she desires from you. I think that if you have a bris and don't give her kvater your will be making a very big mistake which can hurt you as well as your mother.

e1234

Sun, May 01 2011, 2:34 am

kvater is not just for people with infertility
it is also a kavod and segula for parnassah as well I believe
by my last bris we made we gave it to bil and sil (only family here) and they had just had a baby 2 months before.
dh did it to give them the kavod and because they were avelim and by bil being kvater it took away an issues with coming to our simcha.

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