Inviting to shower is it assummed invite to whole wedding

amother

Mon, May 16 2011, 12:02 pm

Chayalle wrote:

amother wrote:

maze wrote:

This always bothered me. It shows such a lack of middos and derech eretz. How could you expect someone to pay a gift, and then not invite them to the whole wedding. It's the mentality of a taker. The same goes for girls who get married early and are the recipient of gifts from everyone; but when their friends get married they have a few kids, have no money and don't repay. If you know you won't be able to repay a gift, don't accept the shower presents to begin with. We asked our Rav about this, and he said whatever you get as a gift you must return.

Our 12th grade class foresaw this problem. Our solution? We each chipped in $350 to the class shower fund ($10 for each classmates bridal shower.)
Of course each kallah's immediate friends and family chipped in as usual besides for this.

Who funded that $350?

We each gave $350 to the fund before we graduated, instead of giving $10 each time one of the 35 girls in our class got engaged.

amother

Mon, May 16 2011, 12:03 pm

maze wrote:

I like the idea of the class shower fund, however, what about friends from seminary, college, neigbors, etc....

The close immediate friends and family chipped in when called/invited to the shower as usual. This was just for the high school classmates.

PinkFridge

Mon, May 16 2011, 12:18 pm

maze wrote:

pink fridge,
yes- the newly married people should set aside money for girls who gave them presents--that's the proper thing to do. It's basic decency. It doesn't matter who paid-whether the parents or the friend herself. Bottom line is, if you got a gift, you should return it. that's the decent thing to do

So they should have this fund of money they won't touch for if and when their friends get married, assuming that they're all still in touch?
It's all very well and good to say how they should set aside their money. What if they didn't get big bucks for gifts? What if they have to do EVERYTHING on their own, furniture, etc.?
Is your rav willing to be named? I don't think any less of him if not but I am really, really curious.

amother

Mon, May 16 2011, 12:47 pm

I once made a surprise shower for a friend and invited the entire class. but then not everyone was invited... (which they generally are in our class.) I felt terrible once I got to the wedding. we did not show the invitation list to the girl or her mother as it was a surprise... and if its a class/friends shower then its definatly possible that the list was not shown (even if it wasnt a surprise.)

and I give a gift to all classmates. sometimes I dont chip into a bigger gift and give something nice for $5 or less (glass salad bowl from walmart, or other cheap yet nice gifts I can find.) they may have very well spent more on me- but during times when I cant afford more then I just give something- and the walmart salad bowl can be just as nice as the crate and barrel one.

maze

Mon, May 16 2011, 1:03 pm

pink,
Why should she accept a gift if she won't return it?
Why is she entitled to a gift and her friend who got married a few years later not?
If someone chipped in for your shower, you should return it. Just because you're married, doesn't give you a "free pass" without the obligation to return it. to be mentchlech you should really set aside to be able to pay later.

PinkFridge

Mon, May 16 2011, 1:20 pm

maze wrote:

So you think the amother above is wrong? (Sorry amother for shlepping you in to this.) And how do you know that the Crate and Barrel gift wasn't bought with a gift card and/or coupon etc.?

I guess to be on the safe side one better write out checks right away because one never knows what will be.

Do you apply this to needy people who may have to accept from people who simply don't need anything? Maybe they're happy to just extend their good wishes and have the other person pay it forward. If it sounds like it hits close to home, here's an example: after I had a baby the committee asked people who would never need my chicken and potatoes to make me suppers. Now it's true that I've contributed in my own way but it's not set up in a way that I would now "owe the bank." Is there something fundamentally flawed in such a system?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 16 2011, 2:11 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

In Crown Heights most people just give one gift for the wedding, whether or not there is a shower. Really, showers are only given for the most needy kallahs.

If you want to include friends but don't want to ask for a gift, invite them to sheva brachos. At least for the shabbos kallah !

Really? I am really asking this because in my circles, at least in america, all girls have them before they are married. I did not have one, but that was another story, but none of my friends were needy kallahs at all. Its just a done thing.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 16 2011, 2:13 pm

amother wrote:

maze wrote:

Our 12th grade class foresaw this problem. Our solution? We each chipped in $350 to the class shower fund ($10 for each classmates bridal shower.) BEFORE we graduated.
Of course each kallah's immediate friends and family chipped in as usual besides for this, when the time came.

And how many years is it now since you graduated? And how many girls are still not married? This may work if everyone gets married right after high school, but would not work in places were girls may not get married for 10 years after high school.

intrigued

Mon, May 16 2011, 2:31 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

I'm scratching my head over here. I guess all my friends and I were just needy Kallahs. I actually don't know of any of my friends in Crown Heights who didn't have a shower. Some even had 2 if their in laws are on Shluchos the town wants to meet the girl and have a chance to give a present.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 16 2011, 2:32 pm

intrigued wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

Well, I guess we have to define needy. What are you considering needy?

intrigued

Mon, May 16 2011, 2:36 pm

de_goldy wrote:

maze wrote:

I cannot understand this Rav's logic. A gift, by definition, is NOT something that has to be repaid.

Maybe her idea of a gift is a conditional Rolling Eyes

. I like to think that we give a gift to someone from the goodness of our hearts because we want to give to them with no strings attached.

MommyZ

Mon, May 16 2011, 3:23 pm

Should this by extension also apply to baby gifts? DH's friends got married after us for the most part since DH was 19 when we got married. When we had our babies many of his friends weren't married yet, and didn't give presents. I don't feel that just because they didn't give me baby gifts I shouldn't give them baby gifts. I give what I can to the people I feel close enough to. Keeping this kind of mental scorecard (or physical) as to who gave to whom, how much was given etc seems a bit petty imho.

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 12:24 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

amother wrote:

maze wrote:

Next month will be 10 years since our graduation. We still have the account active for our shower fund, and the classmate who is in charge of the money and dispensing it, is still running it for the ones who are not married yet.