X-mas decorations for your

Ruchel

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 10:39 pm

Personally, as long as it doesn't give a X-massy feel, I will use the decorations... The most important thing imho is to not put them a bit before Xmas and remove them shortly after... but decorations used at other times or all year long, and of course with no Yoshke/santa on them, don't bother me...

shalhevet

Sat, Oct 14 2006, 6:55 pm

My dh is Israeli and to him tinsel and paper chains just mean sukka decorations. LOL

It bothers me a bit, but he really can't understand what's wrong with using sukka decorations in the sukka ....

Pickle Lady

Sun, Oct 15 2006, 9:21 pm

I think it depends on what you will connect it with. For me tinsel and green and red lights blinking in a sukkah screams XMAS. But maybe for a FFB or an Israeli who never connected the 2 then its fine for them. Get what I am saying.

For the record..its very debateble on whehter thanksgiving is xtian. You need to learn the holidays roots to understand what I mean. Think about it ...who were the pilgims thanking? hmmmm

Flowerchild

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 12:18 am

I dont know exactly if they thanked g-d or not but I do know they made thanks(so to speak) with the indians, they made peace with them and had a festive meal to celebrate their new home and a new relationship with the indians. they were however, puritans and they escaped to america for religious freedom. this country back then had a lot of people come here for religious freedom this was the biggest reason for settlement in america. however when they did move here there were indians here who occupied this land, so the pilgrims together with indians who helped them survive the first year on this land, celebrated their survival and also the harvest of that year which was bountiful. basically they made a festive meal to celebrate survival, good harvest and comradeship with the indians, little of it had to do with religion. thanksgiving I think can be made into anything you want, we jews should be thankful to live in a country where our religion is allowed, and where for the most part we can feel safe to be jewish. I am thankful that I was able to immigrate here from russia safely and escape severe anti-semitism and become a religious jew and actually be able to practice it. so thats what I celebrate.

chen

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 9:53 am

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

I we jews should be thankful to live in a country where our religion is allowed, and where for the most part we can feel safe to be jewish. I am thankful that I was able to immigrate here from russia safely and escape severe anti-semitism and become a religious jew and actually be able to practice it. so thats what I celebrate.

Beautifully said!

Pickle Lady

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 9:57 am

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

I am thankful that I was able to immigrate here from russia safely and escape severe anti-semitism and become a religious jew and actually be able to practice it. so thats what I celebrate.

this is the only truth in you entire post. It doesn't sound like you learned any real american history beyond movies and hallmark adds. The pilgrim were religious freaks. They came to a new land for $$$$$ and be as religous freaky as they wanted. They were not nice to the very few jews around then. They were not treated like regular citizens. Thanksgiving has everything to do with religion when it was first created. They were thanking who they considered to be G-d(it may be they were thanking yoshke) for helping with a harvest that they thought they were going to die if they didn't have. Also they needed to make $$$ or they were going back to England.

Flowerchild

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 11:47 am

ok first of all, I dont need your attitude, if you dont like what I wrote fine thats your prerogative. but I dont need your insulting me because you have a huge issue and dislike for this holiday, you know nothing about me and dont make your silly assumptions. as far as I remember and it has been a while, what I learned is that pilgrims were people who came on the mayflower settled in this country. In 1621 they had a rich harvest which they celebrated with a feast which we call thanksgiving. they did not celebrate this holiday again, until much later. as far as I remember there was some type of strife between the pilgrims and the indians which was settled and they did help the pilgrims survive their first year. obviously the pilgrims were religious since they came to this country for that freedom. also in that time is the beginning of the 13 colonies, people who migrated to this land were indeed searching for gold and freedom. most people who came here were religious, and they came to the new world for that freedom. now in jewish history we are pretty much never liked thats not news and it wouldnt be news that we werent liked back then either. however, we do have freedom here and you cannot deny that and that freedom came from fighting and creating the constitution which gives freedom and a possibility for people in this country to fight for their rights. you dont have to associate thanksgiving with its original purpose, in fact most americans celebrate it according to their desire not everyone thinks of thanksgiving as the mayflower and pilgrims, a lot of people think of it as new found freedom and ability to live the life that you want, and be thankful for it. also another thing, pilgrims were Puritans, meaning that in England there were radical Protestants which happened after the reformation. The pilgrims who escaped to this country because they didnt like the radicalism of the english church, and their religion is based on religious philosophy, Calvinism.
now I dont give a hoot as to whom they prayed to or what they did, because thanksgiving to me is on a different plane. also religiose prosecution and hate for religion, radicalism and the like were very promminent in that time all over the world, thats why america is the melting pot for all the immigrants, it began that way and continues that way, all people that come here want some sort of freedom, and religious freedom is one of them.
picklelady, if you have anything to add feel free, perhaps I dont know some information about this holiday that you know, so share it, otherwise I dont need your haughty attitude.

YALT

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 12:26 pm

About thanksgiving.... didn't the Rebbe say that it's the one holiday that we have reason to celebrate?
About the lights in the sukkah... (I don't use them, but) I heard that they originated as lights for the sukkah and the non jews decided it would be beautiful on their trees.

Pickle Lady

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 1:11 pm

lillyofthevalley with that type of view of thanksgiving then why not celebrate xmas, valentines days, halloween and easter but take out the religion that xtians with it, who cares why it was created seems to be your attitude if you decided to make it have a different menaing to you.

xmas just treat it as holiday for presents, many amercian connect no religion to xmas.

halloween just a fun holiday to dress-up and eat candy. purim II

easter a fun day to eat yummy chocolate and eggs and dress up in pastels.

valentines day a holiday to tell something special to the people we love.

So where do we stop when it comes to taking xtians holidays to turning it into something that we celebrate that just doesn't exactly talk about religion.

Flowerchild

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 1:22 pm

I really do not see what your problem is. xsmas has a lot to do with religion it celebrates the birth of JC and it is right out a christian holiday, velantines day has to do with St. valentine or whatever, so I dont really care for that, halloween is just a stupid holiday to begin with it celebrates all hallowes day whatever. easter has to do directly with JC as well. however, thanksgiving as far as I know doesnt directly have anything to do with JC, its a holiday for any person who is thankful to be in this country, thanksgiving in my view unless I am missing the point, in this country is celebrated as a remembrance of first freedom so to speak. like I said if you have something religious to say about this holiday then please do, perhaps there is something I dont know. but Has veshalom I never celebrate those silly holidays you mentioned in fact I cringe every time I see decorations and easter bunnies. but I never have considered thanksgiving a religious holiday, correct me if I am wrong, if you know of any rabbis who have written some views on this holiday then I would like to read it.

Flowerchild

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 1:31 pm

ok, I just found something, America associates thanksgiving with harvest, in later years like in 1623 it was celebrated as a religious feast, just for that year, but america adopted thanksgiving holiday as it was in 1621 which had nothing to do with G-d but with harvest, so it really celebrates a rich and plentiful harvest.

ny21

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 10:55 am

thank you for your answers

brooklyn

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 8:28 am

YALT wrote:

About the lights in the sukkah... (I don't use them, but) I heard that they originated as lights for the sukkah and the non jews decided it would be beautiful on their trees.

Hey, I heard that there is a really nice bridge for sale in downtown Brooklyn.

amother

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 8:31 am

We use chairs in our shul even if the christians use chairs in thier church. Lights were made to decorate.

brooklyn

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 8:34 am

When Chanukah rolls around and I post pictures of the Chanukah house, lets see how many people think it is OK to use lights for decorations.

amother

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 8:36 am

It says you should decorate your succah. Not your house.

brooklyn

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 8:56 am

It says that where? Decorating is decorating, if it is good for one chag then why not another, who makes the rules?

Mimisinger

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 9:06 am

Oy vavoy. Well, in our sukkah, we bought light up peppers and used those as decorations - too cute! We had a tiki hut in Israel b/c we used real bamboo branches - about 70 of them and boy was it hard carrying them all the way to our top floor mirpeset. But it was gorgeous.

As for Thanksgiving, my family celebrates it and it's a non-religious (Jewish) holiday where we can all get together without issues. Meaning, We can't travel on yom tov so we can't all get together. Thanksgiving is easy.

However, to think that Thanksgiving is the "Indians" and pilgrims coming together in peace and harmony is naive and just historically incorrect. Show me a primary source document to show me this meal actually happened. The Pilgrims came due to religious persecution in their homeland and then religiously persecuted those here. They tried to mend the Native American's "heathen ways." They gave them diseased blankets which killed off hundreds of thousands of NA. They forced them off their lands by force and traded land for beads.

Hallmark and out dated History textbooks have painted a beautiful image of what Thanksgiving is based on, but certainly, it's not based on reality.

greenfire

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 9:54 am

all my food is pretty mean ...

omg you have chairs ...

thank g-d for everything and everyone ... especially Lillyofthevalley ...

I love the colors green & red ... (& even purple)

how FUN lights are ... just call them decorative lights and well - there you go ...

ny21

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 10:04 am

good answer !
here is mine.

Last edited by ny21 on Sun, Sep 16 2007, 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total