I think im gonna lose it.....

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 9:09 pm

I have a 4 year old son and a two year old daughter. my son was just diagnosed with ADHD. during the school year he has been going to an ei center, but this coming year will be his last, as he will be turning 5 during the school year.
he has all the text book symptoms:
*impulsivity
*lack of follow through
*no attention span
*doesnt listen 85% of the time
I could keep going, but its really hard for me to write this, so I wont.

anyway, he started getting services (for other, specific things) at 18 months. when he was in playgroup, he got sent home and was not allowed back for two days as a result of hurting other kids.

his teacher and I are at a total loss as to what to do with him. I have tried charts, rewards, positive reinforcement, etc, but each thing only works for a little while, and then he gets comfortable and hes on to the next thing.

anyway, so towards the end of the school year, his teacher and I were discussing the possibility of him having 1-on-1 next year, but we never really finalized anything, and she wont be his teacher next year, not that that really makes a difference. over the summer he is getting 10 hours SEIT a week, and she will be his teacher next year. she and his camp morah have been havinga very hard time with him, and are really trying to push me towards the medication route. however, since he is not getting any behavior training or anything like that at the moment, I am not even going to consider that as a viable option right now. (also the summer is not as structured as school, and if I am going to do med, then I want him to be in school already.)

his camp mirah just called me to let me know that she really meant to call me last week, but she got very busy with some personal stuff, and she wanted to let me know that he has been hurting some of the kids and their mothers have been complaining, and she just doesnt know what to do cuz hes a great kid, but hurting is just not allowed, and she knows its not really his fault, cuz when she talks to him about it he knows he shouldnt do it and its not nice but he just cant stop himself. she told me that tomorrow will be a trial and if it doesnt go well then he will have to be home from camp (a possible disaster, by the way) for a few days (the number will depend on how many kids he hurt and how badly I guess) and then he will be allowed back, and if he hurts again after that, he wont be allowed back for the rest of the summer. (I guess its a good thing I pay by the week and not upfront, although if he stops going I would have to ask a shaila if I still owe her the rest)

I dont know what im looking for, but please HELP!! im losing my mind and I dont think I can do this anymore!!! (by the way, I do see someone once a week, but thats not till wednesday, so ive got lots of hours until I can talk to her)

Kugglegirl

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 10:12 pm

Hi. I have a child w. ADHD, as well as having worked with children in my classrooms w. ADHD. They are such enthusiastic kids & have so many ideas they want to try out. & don't really understand why everyone is so mad at them all the time. Intellectually, they are often above average, but there is a part of their brain, that makes decisions, that is more like a younger child. This can be so frustrating, since it seems like they understand & yet they are always leaping ahead to do something impulsive & maybe dangerous!

I hear your concern about starting medication. Maybe you are thinking that the last thing you want to do is drug up your precious, creative son. Many people have a concern about medication. & for sure, medication alone is not an answer. I think it is worth your while to have a frank and open discussion with your pediatrician about what kind of options there are in medication, and what kind of side effects you are concerned about. Most pediatricians see a lot of kids with ADHD & are very conversant in this discussion.

If your pediatrician is not conversant in this discussion, ask him/her if there is someone else s/he would suggest you talk with.

If you want to try other things, in addition to your current behavioral support program, there are many who believe that children with ADHD may be extra sensitive to processed foods in the diet, chemicals, sugar & food coloring, gluten, milk & many other foods. I'm sure some folks will have more information on that for you.

I have found sugar to be an issue for my children & try to limit it as much as possible, as well as trying to serve whole & home made foods, which limit some of these things.

To really see what a child who has these kind of sensitivities responds to, it is best to be organized about it & chart & track food & behavior. (Your EI teacher may be able to help you do that.)

Here is my experience with trying medication as part of a program to support my child academically:

Last summer I was really struggling with my child, especially after I observed that this kid could not handle a 20 minute trip to the grocery store the way I saw other children the same age are able to do.

I was thinking about it & coming to acceptance that this one has ADHD & that shabbas, decided to give her a cup of coffee (caffeine is a stimulant very similar to the stimulants in ADHD medicine). I gave my kid the coffee & then walked to shul w. all the kids. I was amazed, it was so different. My kid walked next to me, was not pushing the other kids off the side walk & then sat next to me for davening.

I felt so relieved & was kind of upset w. myself for not trying this sooner.

We started a very low dose of medication in the beginning of the school year. It made such a difference. For years we have gotten so many notes & calls about distraction, losing things, not paying attention, bothering others. (We did have some other behavioral interventions, academic interventions & monitoring that went along with starting the meds too.) But this year was so different with the help of the medication.

I have seen other children start medication, in my classes & also with very good outcomes. It has an effect on the child's self-esteem, social interactions & ability to take in the academic information & practice skills.

For my own child, I can see that as an outcome of the medication & support program we created, now, even when she is not on the medication, she has learned the skills & routines to be successful. (Though we continue the medication as part of the overall program).

Here are some things that may be useful to know about ADHD medications, based on the medications I am familiar with:
1) It does not "build up" in the system, so you should be able to tell quickly if it has any effect on your child
2) It comes in different dosages, so you can start with a lower dose & see what is the minimum needed to be effective.
3) There are different medications that have different lengths of time that they are released over. We currently use one that lasts 4 hours & 1 that lasts about 10-12 hours. So, for instance the shorter acting one will help the child stay focused at shul Shabbas morning & the longer acting one carries the child through school & homework (if we do homework right away after school)
4) Yes, these meds can be addictive. For this reason, I try to give my kid breaks from the meds, on Shabbas, Sundays, days off from school etc. as much as possible. Some times we just do coffee on shabbas, which will last for about 2 hours.

My child did not have any problems with appetite on these dosages. For kids who do, the suggestion is to have them eat before they take the meds & then have food available when the meds wear off.

The options with meds are a lot different than they were 20 years ago when it was just Ritalin.

I'm not saying you have to do this. He is your child & you will need to do the research & trials to find out what is right for him, what he needs to function in the educational setting you choose & what is right for your family.

Best to you.

gryp

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 10:24 pm

Quote:

his camp mirah just called me to let me know that she really meant to call me last week, but she got very busy with some personal stuff, and she wanted to let me know that he has been hurting some of the kids and their mothers have been complaining, and she just doesnt know what to do cuz hes a great kid, but hurting is just not allowed, and she knows its not really his fault, cuz when she talks to him about it he knows he shouldnt do it and its not nice but he just cant stop himself. she told me that tomorrow will be a trial and if it doesnt go well then he will have to be home from camp (a possible disaster, by the way) for a few days (the number will depend on how many kids he hurt and how badly I guess) and then he will be allowed back, and if he hurts again after that, he wont be allowed back for the rest of the summer. (I guess its a good thing I pay by the week and not upfront, although if he stops going I would have to ask a shaila if I still owe her the rest)

I would call the Morah back and tell her that the above is pointless. The poor child cannot control himself and she has set up a test to see if he can control himself? Makes no sense whatsoever.

You must understand that the part of the brain which makes decisions is extremely weak in ADHD kids. It stands no chance against the part of the brain responsible for acting on impulses. That is why these kids cannot control themselves, no matter if we've pulled our hair out till we're bald, the child is incapable, unable to think before acting.

I would not send a child back to a place where he isn't doing well. And I would not medicate a 4 yr old.

I'm sorry for your difficult situation. Perhaps you'd like to have him tested for diff allergies or missing vitamins, as a start off. And then see from there what can be done.

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 11:11 pm

Kugglegirl wrote:

first, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response, I really appreciate it. and I can imagine how hard it must have been for you, trying to figure things out with your child.
my concern with medication is a few things....
1. if I am going to do it, I want it in a controlled environment like a classroom, not at camp. I dont think it will be beneficial for him to try it out when he will only be there for a few more weeks.
2. I AM scared to give him drugs, but ive already been through so much already, and im not an "in denial" parent, so if medication is whats best for him, then thats what we will do. HOWEVER I firmly believe that medication on its own is just a bandaid, because it doesnt teach the child how to cope and deal and control and whatever else they need to learn. I need time to find a good behavior therapist before I will even consider putting him on medication.
3. my pediatrician will talk to me about anything, so thats not an issue Smile

Quote:

If you want to try other things, in addition to your current behavioral support program, there are many who believe that children with ADHD may be extra sensitive to processed foods in the diet, chemicals, sugar & food coloring, gluten, milk & many other foods. I'm sure some folks will have more information on that for you.

I have found sugar to be an issue for my children & try to limit it as much as possible, as well as trying to serve whole & home made foods, which limit some of these things.

To really see what a child who has these kind of sensitivities responds to, it is best to be organized about it & chart & track food & behavior. (Your EI teacher may be able to help you do that.)

I was actually jsut talking to my sister about this, and my feeling is that, while there are studies that show there is a difference, A) it is not generally enough of a change to change the childs behavior from dysfunctional to functional and B) what works for one doesnt usually work for everyone. I have tried milk and wheat, and saw no significant change. my kids dont have a lot of sugar in their diets anyway, so im not even gonna bother with that.

(I cut out your story about your child, I hope you dont mind) I dont know if im so keen on the idea of giving coffee to a four year old.
I think at some point during the school year medication will be discussed, but I wont even hear of it before then, because it just doesnt make sense right now.

Quote:

Best to you.

you too!!

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 11:23 pm

Quote:

while I understand where you are coming from, this morah has a responsibilty to provide her campers with a safe environment, and if there is soemthing that is a danger it needs to be dealt with. his morah and seit are working with him on a chart (some kind of token syster, I need to speak to the seit to find out more) so its not that she just said if you hurt soemone you cant come back.

I understand that he is not capable right now, but he needs to be taught those skills, and her other campers need to feel safe.

im considering pulling him out anyway after this week, and having his therapist and seit come work with him at home, but that means that im going to have to have a real plan, and I also dont know if him being home will necessarily be best for him. but I guess we will see.

(by the way, I did mention in my original post that, while medication is being discussed, it is NOT an option in my mind right now- as you said, hes only 4)

we've dont lots of tests so far, and b"h everything has come back negative....

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2011, 11:29 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Please listen to Kugglegirl! Your son may need behavioral therapy, but he won't be ABLE to do it if he can't focus, and he needs meds for that. It's a "chicken or the egg" argument, but he can't do it without some sort of help to get focused.

I have to tell you, my DD is a very sensitive girl, and because she refuses to fight back she has been terrorized by boys in her class who have untreated ADD. They have punched her, kicked her, and karate chopped her so many times, that she has come home literally black and blue in a dozen places. I have sent tons of emails to the teachers, principals, and the boys parents - but every single one of them just said "Oh, they're boys. You can't help it."

My DD has been driven out of two schools now, because I refuse to send her into an environment where boys are allowed to be so violent and not dealt with. (BTW, the boys dads were all big rabbis in the community.) The teachers wanted to make it like MY kid was somehow the problem for getting beaten up! I was the "problem parent" - so we had to leave.

PLEASE, don't let your son be one of those boys. People around here say things like "Oh, I know that family. Yeah, their kids are trouble." You really don't want your boy to get that reputation, it will ruin his self esteem.

im so sorry for your daughter (and you!!) that she had to go through that!! hopefully that will not happen in the school she is in now.

my son is not violent, he has aggressive tendancies. thats a HUGE difference. as he gests older, that might change if everything goes undealt with, but hopefully it shows from my posts that I am really trying to be on top of the situation.

as I have said, I will not consider medication until he is back in school, and even then only if he is in some kind of behavior therapy. my husband and I are taking a parent training course right now which is supposed to be really great, so hopefully that will make at least a dent in the situation, and we can go from there.

also, my mither in law mentioned play therapy, and my sister was explaining it to me, but hten she had to go.
I get what it is, and I think it would be great for him! does anyone know how I go about getting it or finding out about it or whatever? he has empire/child health plus (we are in far rockaway, if that makes a difference in any kind of recommendation)

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 1:46 am

OP, you said "he has been hurting some of the kids and their mothers have been complaining, and she just doesnt know what to do cuz hes a great kid, but hurting is just not allowed,"

Hurting other people is not a "tendency", hurting is being violent. I am sure that 99% of the time he's a great kid, but when another kid is on the receiving end of that 1%, that is NOT acceptable. As his parent you are responsible for making sure that other children are safe around him.

I understand that you are overwhelmed, and that you are working extremely hard to do everything you can for your son. I really get that. My DD is special needs, too, and I'm scrambling to get her IEP, evaluation, school registration and tuition handled. It's a 20 person job, and you have to do all of it yourself.

(in which I start ranting) Argue

I seriously don't understand why parents are so vehemently anti-medicine. It really baffles me. If your son were diabetic, would you refuse to give him insulin? Even if he cried because he had to get a shot every day? If he broke his leg, would you not let him use crutches "because he needs to learn to hop around by himself"?

I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but I see post after post of parents going "HELP, MY KID IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!" and yet the one thing that is clinically proven to help (especially when combined with therapy) is automatically treated as the worst form of child abuse possible. People say "I'll do anything I can to help my child", except the thing that everyone is telling them to do. You can see how that can get rather frustrating after a while.

Why can't people at least TRY medication for a few weeks? If you don't like the results, try something else, but don't dismiss something that is sound medical advice until everything else fails and you're ready to kill each other. How does that make any sense?

Kugglegirl

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 8:59 am

Dear OP:
I hope your son will have a successful day in camp today & that you & the team will have time to work out how to make it through the next few weeks of camp.

It sounds like what you are looking for is a strategy for surviving the next few weeks, since your son will have a Sp.Ed. Moreh next year, who is currently spending 10 hours per week with him in the camp setting. Then you will have time to investigate behavioral therapy, medication & in a more structured that meets your son’s needs.

I’m going to ask a bunch of questions now, and I want you to keep in mind that *I* & the other imamothers do not really need you to answer them here. These questions are to help you think about the current situation & figure out if there is any way to manage through in the camp situation for now.

1) Is your current IEP/ISFP appropriate for this camp setting- are all the components of the IEP/ISFP in place and the resources available in the camp setting?
2) Has the camp Moreh read the IEP/ISFP & does she understand how to implement it/how to support your child? Can the SEIT provider use part of the 10 hours to consult directly with the Moreh to help her understand how to implement the IEP/ISFP?

3) Does the camp moreh have authority to exclude your child from her classroom/camp or is there an administrator who can help the team resolve the problems?

4) Is the Moreh/camp administration invested in helping your child be successful & stay in camp, or do you feel like they are “doing you a favor.”

5) Can you go and observe to see what is happening in the setting?

6) What are the specifics of the camp environment that make it more challenging for your child than the school setting? Group size? Unstructured activity time? Environment or classroom resources are less/more child friendly? Age range in group? Classroom rules & consequences are unclear/poorly enforced/too many rules? Staff to child ratio is too low? Length of day?

7) Has the moreh identified time of day or activities where your child acts out more? Ie- Transitions/free play/seated craft activity/lunch/before or after lunch/rest time?

8) How does the Moreh alert children to transitions? Ie- gives them a 5 minute warning/ uses a song/uses a visual activity chart?

9) What part of the day is he successful in? Davening? Seated activity? Sports activity? Lunch time?

10) Does the SEIT/Sp. Ed. teacher work with him in the classroom & model how to support him for the Moreh, or does the SEIT pull him out to work 1:1? Can the SEIT work w. your son in a small group? (If she is working w. him in the classroom, is it at a time when the Moreh can observe, or is there too much going on for the Moreh to pay attention?)

11) Are there other class groups with a more experienced/sp.ed. trained Moreh who would be a better fit for your son, or where there is a higher staff:student ratio? Where the moreh has a more structured approach?

12) Any chance to find a 1:1 or additional person to be in the camp group with him now- even a teen ager that you pay privately, or a volunteer?

13) Is it an option for him to be in camp only when the SEIT/Sp. Ed. teacher is there? Or to decrease the length of the day for him, so he is there during the time when he is most successful?

14) Is it an option for him to stay home & have the SEIT services at home?

15) Can you have an “emergency” meeting with the Moreh, administrator & the SEIT teacher & go over what is happening now & camp & how to support your child? If so, I suggest you go in w. a written list of your concerns, what the teacher says are her concerns, and discuss point by point strategies for addressing each concern. Use questions from this list, or your child’s IEP/ISFP to guide you.

Like I said, I don’t need to know the answers, these questions are to help you evaluate your situation & think about how to make this work for the next few weeks.

Hang in there & I hope (please H') we will hear from you that things are getting better.

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 10:20 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

what I said is that he has aggressive tendancies. I am NOT minimizing the fact that he is hurting other kids, and in one of my later posts I clearly said that every child has the right to a safe environment. all I meant was that he is not a violent child. he doesnt beat people up, he doesnt do the things that (im sorry, I dont remember who it was) one mother said made her have to change her daughters school two times. if it goes unresolved, yes, he will probably be one of those boys, but thats one of the reasons im trying to get help for him NOW. I am very aware that it is my responsibility to make sure the kids he plays with are safe, and thats why im taking care of it. but the answer, at least in this case, is not remove first and then think later. he can be removed from the immediate situation, and his mora, seit and I are all working together to try to keep it from happening again. if it does, then he will not go to camp again, at least for a little while.

Quote:

(in which I start ranting) Argue

(I know this was not a personal attack on me, but I am going to answer anyway) I have so much to say to this. if my child was diabetic AND NEEDED MEDICATION, no I would not let him go without. if my child broke something and needed a cast, no I would not let him go without one.

HOWEVER medication is not the only choice, and in a case where there are other options, I would always explore those first- ALWAYS. also, (and this is my personal case) I never said I am anti medication. what I DID say is that I am anti medication ON ITS OWN and AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE. most ADHD medication is NOT recommended for children under 6. my son is 4!!!! thats a whole two years younger than the recommended age.

also I dont think the summer is the right time for most children with ADHD to start medication because it is a much more relaxed environment and I think medication should be started in a controled environment, like a classroom.

and by the way, it may be proven to help, but just like everything else, it DOESNT work for everyone, so please stop trying to push it on those of us who want to try other things first. I should not have to be made to feel guilty about trying to do whats best for my son if I am really really trying and have very GOOD reasons for not wanting medication to be my first choice. (not you personally, but all people in general who try to push medication)

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 10:51 am

Kugglegirl wrote:

I am going to try to answer them here, so that everyone can get an idea of the situation and continue to try to help me

Quote:

1) Is your current IEP/ISFP appropriate for this camp setting- are all the components of the IEP/ISFP in place and the resources available in the camp setting?

I dont really understand the question, but maybe this is hte answer- he gets all of his services at camp- ot for sensory, and seit. the camp morah is a seit during the year (not his obviously) so that is definitely a plus. what other resources are you asking about?

Quote:

2) Has the camp Moreh read the IEP/ISFP & does she understand how to implement it/how to support your child? Can the SEIT provider use part of the 10 hours to consult directly with the Moreh to help her understand how to implement the IEP/ISFP?

I dont think the camp morah read it (I dont thinki ever gave her a copy of it), but I know that they are working together very closely to try to help him have a succesful summer. im know that the seit tells the morah what goal they are working on and what strategies she is using so that she can keep doing the same thing even when the seit isnt there.

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3) Does the camp moreh have authority to exclude your child from her classroom/camp or is there an administrator who can help the team resolve the problems?

it is a backyard camp that she is running herself, so she has all the authority.

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4) Is the Moreh/camp administration invested in helping your child be successful & stay in camp, or do you feel like they are “doing you a favor.”

I dont think shes "doing me a favor"- I think we ALL want him to have a successful summer IN CAMP. she is really trying to work with him, but at this point he is a hard kid to work with....

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5) Can you go and observe to see what is happening in the setting?

I guess I could (meaning I have the time to as im not working over the summer) but I dont think my presence will be beneficial. what I was thinking about doing is asking the person we are going to for parent training if HE would be able to observe, because then he could see first hand and maybe give us (his parents) and his mora and seit some tips. I dont know if that is something he does, or if he even has the time though, so I will ask him.

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6) What are the specifics of the camp environment that make it more challenging for your child than the school setting? Group size? Unstructured activity time? Environment or classroom resources are less/more child friendly? Age range in group? Classroom rules & consequences are unclear/poorly enforced/too many rules? Staff to child ratio is too low? Length of day?

I didnt say camp was more challenging for him than school, in fact this year he had a VERY hard year in school, to the point that his teacher and I began discussing 1-on-1 for him for next year. (I should really follow up on that....) the group is smaller than his class was I think, and there are not as many "teachers." its in a house rather than a school, so im sure there are things they cant touch and places they cant go. as in school, everyone is pretty much the same age. the mora is very good at explaining the rules, and its not that he doesnt get them, its just that he cant stop himself. school is 6 1/2 hours, camp is 5 1/2.

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7) Has the moreh identified time of day or activities where your child acts out more? Ie- Transitions/free play/seated craft activity/lunch/before or after lunch/rest time?

im sure if I asked her she would be able to tell me something, but I have just been so caught up in trying to deal with everything that I didnt even ask....maybe I will today after camp.

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8 ) How does the Moreh alert children to transitions? Ie- gives them a 5 minute warning/ uses a song/uses a visual activity chart?

I dont know, but from what his teacher in school said, he doesnt really have a hard time transitioning, which is a BIG bracha (at least from my perspective!)

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9) What part of the day is he successful in? Davening? Seated activity? Sports activity? Lunch time?

again, I didnt ask.....

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10) Does the SEIT/Sp. Ed. teacher work with him in the classroom & model how to support him for the Moreh, or does the SEIT pull him out to work 1:1? Can the SEIT work w. your son in a small group? (If she is working w. him in the classroom, is it at a time when the Moreh can observe, or is there too much going on for the Moreh to pay attention?)

she works with him in the classroom. there are 10 kids, the mora and an assistant, so altohugh it DOES get hectic, she has told me that she tries to keep an eye on him anyway, although it doesnt always work, so that she can catch him being good Smile

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11) Are there other class groups with a more experienced/sp.ed. trained Moreh who would be a better fit for your son, or where there is a higher staff:student ratio? Where the moreh has a more structured approach?

there is a program at darchei called the diamond program (the parent trainer wokrs there) and although he is a bit young for it we were trying to get him in, but it costs about $6,000.....otherwise, its just back yard camps for his age, as far as I know.

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12) Any chance to find a 1:1 or additional person to be in the camp group with him now- even a teen ager that you pay privately, or a volunteer?

I wish, but I just dont have the money for it right now- im already struggeling to pay for camp and my social worker and the parent trainer....

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13) Is it an option for him to be in camp only when the SEIT/Sp. Ed. teacher is there? Or to decrease the length of the day for him, so he is there during the time when he is most successful?

first, he wont want to be different than everyone else. second, from his perspective hes having a great summer so it will seem like a punishment. third, I dont think being home, in a totally UNSTRUCTURED environment will be any better for him.....

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14) Is it an option for him to stay home & have the SEIT services at home?

I guess it will have to be if he cant be in camp anymore.....

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15) Can you have an “emergency” meeting with the Moreh, administrator & the SEIT teacher & go over what is happening now & camp & how to support your child? If so, I suggest you go in w. a written list of your concerns, what the teacher says are her concerns, and discuss point by point strategies for addressing each concern. Use questions from this list, or your child’s IEP/ISFP to guide you.

I never thought to ask, but I guess its possible, and it actually sounds like a really great idea. thanks!!

Quote:

Like I said, I don’t need to know the answers, these questions are to help you evaluate your situation & think about how to make this work for the next few weeks.

Hang in there & I hope (please H') we will hear from you that things are getting better.

AMEN!!

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 11:06 am

zigi wrote:

why does your son hit? did he start it first or is he responding to someone else "starting up with him" they are in quotes b/c there could be real bulliying or missed social ques. my son fought back when he felt that he was being teased, it was both.

does he have the words to expresse himself that he wants xyz?

he may be hitting for a few reasons (im not there, so I cant know for sure, but these are the reasons he hits at home)
1. impulsivity- he DOES have the words, but he cant stop himself long enough to think about using htem. so if someone took a toy from him, or has a toy that he wants (two very different situations, but both times when he may hit) he wont be able to stop himself for as long as it takes to find the words or figure out the appropriate response.

2. sensory input- sometimes he just walks by and hits the wall, or me, or his sister, or whatever for no aparent reason, and the only thing I can think of is that he is craving the input and knows how to get it (albeit in an inappropriate way)

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isn't a seit's job to teach appropriate reactions? not just to diffuse a situation but also how to act properly?

yes it is, and she does that, and I do that, and his mora does that, and his teacher at school does that....we all try to teach him appropriate behavior, and he knows whats acceptable and whats not, but again, he cant stop himself.

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re medication, adhd is a stimulant, coffee has the same effect. it makes you more alert and you can tune extra things out. also I learned that medication like kugel said doesn't build up in the body so it could be given for school and not on weekends or if there is no school. also give after the child ate so there isn't a lack of appetite, a child psych and advocate explained this about medication.

I know most of those things already- dont forget, he is 4, and this is not soemthing that suddenly popped up over the years. I have done A LOT of research over the past few years, because I knew where I was going to end up some day. (I jsut didnt realize how hard the situation would be)
I would not give my 4 year old coffee, so why would I give him any other stimulant UNLESS THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION and he was working with a behavior specialist and had a specific behavior plan?

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if he is distributing the class you could be able to get a crisis para

the process makes it not worth it- camp is over aug. 18th.....

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about he will grow out of it. its not true. they have to be taught how to work with their tendencies. it can be taught. but its not always something that can be resolved on its own

I never said he will grow out of it, and I never meant to imply it either. I dont believe that. I firmly believe that if I were to just leave him on his own, it would get very bad very quickly. of course he needs to be taught how to work with himself. thats why I want to get him into a behavior specialist.

amother

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 8:19 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Optione wrote:

In reference to the medication aspect: There are some children who have a chemical or hormonal imbalance due to the levels of dopamine and norepinephrine that their body is sustaining. Therefore, when a child is on medication, all it does for them is balance out their bodily chemicals. There is nothing wrong with him. He, nor you, chose to do this to him; it's simply the way the body works. I understand that you don't want to start medication until school starts due to lack of structure in the summer, but it may backfire on you. If he is now home for the next 4 weeks, he may become completely out of his control, again, not because he did anything wrong by having a chemical imbalance. Also, it may take a few tries to get the medication right. Therefore, it may be beneficial to start it in the summer so that he can start the year fresh and positively with the proper medications. good luck!

THANK YOU!

Just because you try medication, does not mean that you've given up on every other option. It only means that you have one more tool in your toolbox to help your DS cope with life. Therapy, diet, SEIT, extra love and a para are NOT mutually exclusive to medication. If you were doing medication without therapy or an IEP, I'd be having the exact same rant, but with the words switched around.

I know that, but I am not giving medication to a 4 year old until other things are in place. his pediatrician (who knows him VERY well) agrees with me that it shouldnt even be considered until the beginning of the school year, maybe even later. the neurologist we went to said that SHE wouldnt recommend it until closer to the middle of the year, like dec/jan time. the pediatrician gave me the names of two developmental pediatricians (not really sure what that is) and he said they will do even more intensive evaluations.
im not not willing to try medication because I see it as giving up, im not willing to try medication until I have all the proper tools in place for it to be effective. it may calm him down or whatever, but that is only a band aid if he doesnt get the right tools to learn how to deal with himself.
one more thing the pediatrician said- if he was 6 (as is the recommended age) he would say exactly what you said- try meds now, so that by the time school starts he will ) hopefully already be on the right track, and he wont waste half the year trying and adjusting and experimenting. but because hes 4 AND hes in an EI center and wont be going to yeshiva next year, he really strongly (almost as strongly as me) feels that it should wait till school.
im a little bit concerned about the time in between camp and school, but I know there are in between camps which I will probably take advantage of this summer, and we are also going to try to get away for a little bit, which will be very beneficial for him (and me!!) since he didnt have a break between school and camp because of added snow days.