DH Messes Up Even the Most Basic Parenting Jobs

amother

Mon, Aug 29 2011, 9:43 pm

DH does not know how to parent. He has a high need for control and takes it out on the kids and I am losing it.

For example, last night I asked him to say shema with the 7 year old. Generally, when I say shma with her, I sing it, with the first paragraph, and sometimes she joins in and sometimes not and I cuddle and hug her and she goes to sleep. He went up there and tried to make her say shma by herself and when she wouldn't, he took away each of her toys, one by one, until her room was practically empty and she was a basket case from screaming for so long. I tried not to interfere but I couldn't take it after 25 min and went in to calm her down.

Then when I tried to discuss it with him later, he said it was my fault for coddling her and she should know how to say shma by now and she should say it when he wants her to and give in and she will not win, he will win, etc. I tried to explain how useless it is to have a power struggle with a 7 year old but he just kept saying it was my fault, I was too lax and shouldn't interfere, etc. This morning, he only gave back the toys after he made her say shma and the first paragraph.

We have been married 12 years and I have tried everything, it seems. Trying to get him to go to parenting classes, buying books about parenting, modeling what I wanted him to do etc. I give up. I don't know what to do anymore. All I can think of is that I will keep my kids away from him and parent them myself. What else can I do? Am I overreacting? Should I just let him parent his way and hope the kids are not too traumatized?

amother

Mon, Aug 29 2011, 9:49 pm

Wow.
I can relate to similar situations in our marriage where one parent is stricter than the other
or one parent is more lax about something than the other.
It's important not to discuss it in front of the kids - which you didn't. So that's very good.

Maybe your husband was stressed out, or tired, or hungry when it happened?

All I can think of is to compliment him when he parents in a way you like.
For example:
'Thanks for singing zemiros at the table I am happy the kids are seeing yiddishkeit in a positive light from you.'
or:
'I am glad you took the kids to the park, they love going out with you'

Good luck. I am looking forward to hearing other people's responses too.

amother

Mon, Aug 29 2011, 10:39 pm

You know what? There is a time to intervene. And when a child is being hurt emotionally, you need to step in right away. If it had been me in your situation, as soon as I heard that our child was being PUNISHED for not saying Shema - and learning to associate a beautiful mitzva with something so negative - I would have stepped in and said that I would take over. I would never have let it get to the point that my child was in tears at bedtime over the Shema.

That doesn't mean you have to have a big confrontation in front of the child - but do rescue her from hurtful situations. You're not under any obligation to just let your husband take over despite the negative consequences to your child. Honestly - I'd hurt my husband's feelings over my child's if something he was doing was hurting her! Deal with it calmly and talk about it later - but STEP IN.

It's not just parenting techniques you're dealing with, sounds like. You have a totally different hashkafa from your husband when it comes to how to "do" chinuch. YOu need to get on the same page with that - and for that, yes, talk to a Rav who can set HIM straight because what he is doing is very destructive.

amother

Tue, Aug 30 2011, 4:33 am

Putting a child to bed, (or childrens meal time) is not basic for most men (and alot of women too!) Especially when it involves a set routine they are not used to.

My husband recognizes he finds these times very difficult without me and similar things used to happen, and he would end up feeling he can't discipline the kids. He asked me if I would not leave him to do those things so we agreed that he would try, but I would make sure I'm around to support him or that he could actually call me to step in if it gets crazy.

A way to support him or step in and protect your children whilst maintaining his respect and shalom bayis would be in that situation....

Right at the beginning (!) to say to dd (when u start to see resistance) daddy is doing bed time and wants you to TRY to say shema by yourself. Show me and daddy how nicely you can do it. If u continue to see resistance you could call into the room, DD listen to daddy or...(insert what you feel is an appropriate thing) -this shows your support for DH but also allows you to pick something that will cause less screaming. You may find, just by supporting him it calms him (dh) down and makes DD respect and listen to him.

Failing that I would start family projects (start with loshon hara as its unrelated, work on it all week, make signs together etc,
Then do loshon Tov - this already u can start to relate to siblings and DH, how kids can say things to DH respectfully-makes things calmer, then move onto kibbud Av Vaim.)

Either way, you need to tell DH you want the kids to listen to him (could easily be the root of his issues) and say you want to be more supportive but if you show him this can u agree to pick appropriate punishments together.

amother

Tue, Aug 30 2011, 4:45 am

amother wrote:

men and women parent differently.read "partnership parenting" by kyle pruett. the funny thing is on the back is says a short summary reading as follows:

men and women not only have different communication styles but unique approaches to parenting as well. while mothers generally tend to overprotect their kids, fathers tend to push them towards independence. and whereas experts tend to advocate "a united front" dr.s kyle and marsha pruett reveal how mom and dad may not always be on the same page - which initially may seem to cause conflict- but in reality, can actually strenghthen the whole family.

let him parent as does it. the reason its backfiring is because you are getting involved. lets say things would have been different if you would have said its your night to do bedtime, do it as you do best instead of probably instructing him how "YOU" do it. and the way you started off your post is wrong. whose to say your a better parent because you agree with yourself, and hes the bad guy bc you do not agree with him and hes not doing it "your" way per se?. [quote="amother"]DH does not know how to parent. He has a high need for control and takes it out on the kids and I am losing it. [quote] this is wrong!

next, again stop pushing your way on him, and let him breathe. your the one who seems like you have a high need for control. your kids will be bossy and traumatized from the way you act towards him, rather than the way he acts.
you both need to sit down and communicate and instead of pointing out his hangups, find your own and work on yourself. sorry im being blunt, but from what you wrote, it seems that you are at fault not him.

amother

Tue, Aug 30 2011, 8:19 am

I think you should keep him away from the children for the tasks that he is not preforming well. He can make a mistake at bedtime but what concerned me is that he didn't admit that he messed up and didn't try to learn from you the right way to do it.
I am sorry for asking but is he abusive to you or the children? The reason I am asking because my DH used to try to get away with not helping by messing up the job or scream. That way I wouldn't ask him to do it next time. I learned later on that it is considered abusive. The need to control is also a red sign. I just want to make sure that this is not the same with your DH.

morah

Tue, Aug 30 2011, 8:47 am

[quote="amother"]
let him parent as does it. the reason its backfiring is because you are getting involved. lets say things would have been different if you would have said its your night to do bedtime, do it as you do best instead of probably instructing him how "YOU" do it. and the way you started off your post is wrong. whose to say your a better parent because you agree with yourself, and hes the bad guy bc you do not agree with him and hes not doing it "your" way per se?. [quote="amother"]DH does not know how to parent. He has a high need for control and takes it out on the kids and I am losing it.

Quote:

this is wrong!

next, again stop pushing your way on him, and let him breathe. your the one who seems like you have a high need for control. your kids will be bossy and traumatized from the way you act towards him, rather than the way he acts.
you both need to sit down and communicate and instead of pointing out his hangups, find your own and work on yourself. sorry im being blunt, but from what you wrote, it seems that you are at fault not him.

Normally, I would say you're right, but in this situation you are dead wrong. This is NOT simply 'different parenting styles'. There is no one right way to parent, but there are quite a few wrong ways. To paraphrase a saying about Torah, there are 70 ways- note '70', NOT infinite, there is room for variation, but not anything and everything. Forcing a child significantly out of their comfort zone (as opposed to just pushing the boundaries a bit) is not ok; taking away all of a child's toys because she didn't want to say the whole shema by herself is seriously excessive, not 'a different style', and the mother is right to call him out on it. If the father isn't so sing-songy or cuddly, that's one thing, but the force and punishment is, frankly, disturbing. OP, was this an isolated incident, or does this sort of thing happen all the time?

Yes, there is a definite wrong way to do things. My husband can't sit through shul to this day without frequent breaks because as a child he was forced to sit in shul, through the entire minyan, without a peep (and was harshly punished if he failed to comply in the slightest) at an age at which any normal adult would find it inappropriate to expect that level of behavior from a child. The father in the OP is pretty much doing the same, and it's plain wrong, somebody needs to get that message across to him-clearly not the OP- I would suggest, as others have, a Rav with chinuch expertise.

amother

Wed, Aug 31 2011, 9:29 pm

OP here. Thank you for all your advice. He does not have a rav or anyone who can help him with this. I already ask him to do things very rarely, maybe once or twice a week to help with the kids. But I guess I have to even cut down on that.

Here is another example. This morning he was supposed to get her to school on her first day. That was the ONLY parenting job he had all day. And he just dropped her off at the door, at a new building. She was afraid to go in because she didn't know where her classroom was supposed to be and he had a whole big scene apparently telling her she needs to be a big girl and go by herslef and she started crying and refused to go in. Later he called me and told me he thinks there is something wrong with HER and she needs therapy. I tried to explain that a parent needs to walk in on the first day of school with a seven year old and help her find her classroom, but he just got mad and kept saying there's no reason she can't find her own classroom, etc, etc.

I am supposed to be at work when she starts school... I don't know what to do about tomorrow. Should I just go into work late? Should he just be relieved of all parenting responsibilities if he is so incomptent? I feel like every little thing is going to get messed up if I ask him to do it.

leomom

Wed, Aug 31 2011, 10:07 pm

He definitely needs to learn what is age-appropriate in terms of behavior and needs for each stage in a child's development. He is expecting too much of her and she's going to end up with a lot of stress and anxiety unless he is willing to learn how to support her and be there for her, and care about how the world looks through the eyes of a seven-year-old. This is all something he needs to learn explicitly, just as part of being a knowledgeable parent. It's not something parents necessary know intuitively - certainly not fathers, generally.

Would he read a book about normal child development? Would he be willing to learn from a parenting coach or similar professional support person?

amother

Thu, Sep 01 2011, 12:30 am

amother wrote:

Please don't have him take the children to school I had the same situation and my children got messed up. I regret very much that I didn't quit my job and protected my children. This is not a normal behavior. He is trying to blame your daughter as being messed up when the truth is that he doesn't want to put in any work and effort into taking care of the children.

sugarplum

Thu, Sep 01 2011, 12:57 am

Don't put him in situations that he is doomed to fail. He really needs to learn parenting skill but it has to come from someone he respects.Maybe a friend if he doesn't have a rav. What about his therapist.
You should not interfere when he is parenting and do not keep the kids away from him unless he's dangerous / verbally emotionally abusive.. He has something you can never give them. He is their father. They can survive your dh's strength but not you showing them that they need to be protected from him.
Be on his side." This is what Father said "
Be an example but don't be judgemental. He will pick up on your language .

spinkles

Thu, Sep 01 2011, 1:30 am

I think it's really important for you to stick up for your kids. I disagree with the previous poster that you shouldn't interfere with his parenting. He's really being cruel to the children and you cannot just stand by and watch. Children believe what adults tell them, and they may believe the mean things he says about them unless you step in and protect them.

He doesn't sound like he understands what he's doing, and he doesn't seem interested in changing. So I would just keep him completely uninvolved in the parenting. I know that's really hard on you, but I think unless he's going to work on changing, you just cannot expose your children to such hurt.

(I don't understand why you entrusted him with bringing your daughter to her first day of school in a new building, though. It seems pretty unrealistic to think that would work out okay.)