TAKING A LOAN FOR RENT?!!

queenyemk

Thu, Oct 26 2006, 8:41 pm

to get a geamch you need 2 consigners
who will sign for you???
who will leand you money when they know how you live
if you don't pay it back the cosigners will be hit to pay back your loan - not nice to family or friends
max you'll get is $1500 if your lucky! don't think that is enough to cover you!

don't have the money, don't spend the money = don't get credit cards - one way ticket downstairs!

Marion

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 3:24 am

amother wrote:

When adults know in the back of their mind that their parents will always bail them out of big trouble when it comes down to it, its a big impedement for learning responsibility.

Yup, that's the problem here too. I call it "enabling". My ILs just keep bailing him (and as a result, us) out, and I hate it. Here's what I'm doing to change that; maybe the ideas will help the OP too.

1. I'm in charge of the finances. Since my wallet was stolen with the bank card, DH is the only one with the card. He takes out cash once a week, as per the amount I ask for. We pay cash for EVERYTHING.

2. The mortgage (or in OP's case, rent) comes out automatically every month. That means there HAS to be money to cover it. For rent, I suggest giving him 6 post-dated cheques at a time for the 1st of the month. I also suggest an overdraft allowance at the bank. It's as good as a loan, as you have to pay interest on it, and it will make sure that the rent is paid.

3. We don't have a car. We DO have cell phones (3 at the moment -- don't ask). We also have a landline. We make calls the cheapest way possible. Between us that's usually cell phone to cell phone (we have a family plan); from us to anywhere else it's usually landline to landline or landline to cell phone. Cell phone to any cell phone besides one of ours or to a landline is always the last option. We turn off lights when we leave the room, don't use the air conditioning more than 10 hours a week in the summer (and we live 1/2way into the desert), and use the microwave as much as possible, rather than the oven (it uses less electricity).

We bought a house this year with our savings, but haven't planted the garden yet because we can't afford to water it. BE"H, next year. We also travelled to chu"l so my father could me our son...we did it with the money left over from the house, because we thought we'd worked it out so we'd be OK. I don't regret the trip, it was important. But it's taken me twice as long so far as we thought it would to find a job, and Bituach Leumi (EI) is jerking my chain (what else is new), so we don't have the money we thought we would. We're managing, right now, but this is probably the last month we'll be OK.

OP: You need to downsize whatever you can. One car, and skip the vacations. You want to do something special for the kids? Pack a lunch and take them for a picnic. Or take them to a museum or on a special tour for the day. No hotel, no extra food, no flight. Life doesn't have to stop, but it sounds like you really need to cut back. I told DH we can't live like when we were single and dating and newlywed...we can't go for dinner once a week. We can't even go once a month...but we CAN rent a movie (DVD) and stick it into the drive on the computer and pop some popcorn. We CAN take a walk on the "boardwalk" (tayelet) that runs along the side of the wadi across the street from the house. Pack the baby into the stroller and no need even for a babysitter! You can PM me if you want more ideas.

amother

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 4:30 am

there is a halacha that if a rich man looses all his money the town has to donate for him to keep up his origianal lifstyle because that is what he is used to.

micki

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 5:42 am

a halacha.
really- please post the source.

BeershevaBubby

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:15 am

amother wrote:

there is a halacha that if a rich man looses all his money the town has to donate for him to keep up his origianal lifstyle because that is what he is used to.

Even if that's the case, this family hasn't gone bankrupt. They're just irresponsible, living beyond their means and expect going further into debt is the right way to go.

ShiraMiri

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:15 am

The Rambam writes in
Matnos Aniyim 7:3 -

"You are commanded to give to the poor person in accordance with
what he is lacking. If he has no clothing, he must be clothed. If he
has no housewares, housewares must be purchased for him. If he
has no wife, he must be given a wife, or if a woman, she must be
given a husband. Even if it was the way of this poor person to ride
on a horse with a servant running in front of him, and he became
poor and lost his property, they should purchase a horse upon
which he can ride, and a servant to run before him. As it says,
'enough to make up for what he is missing.' And you are
commanded to complete what he is missing, and not to enrich
him."

Further commentary says..."But in order to reach the point where we are required to fill in the "dei machsoro asher yechsar lo" (enough to make up for what he is missing), a person must first become an ani (poor person)."

So this couple must use all of their own resources before seeking tzedaka - it isn't fair to go to a gemach if they are sitting on a nest egg. As far as a bank loan - a financial advisor can tell them the best way to proceed. If they can get a debt consolidation loan at a low interest rate it might save them money in the long run. Of course, modifications in their lifestyle and the willingness to do their part in earning a parnassah are all a part of the solution.

Last edited by ShiraMiri on Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:24 am; edited 4 times in total

Mitzvahmom

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:17 am

But the OP said her husband does not have a job that supports that lifestyle.

Maybe he grew up in that lifestyle, but it is his parents that are wealthy not him.

I am sorry but as a single parent I barely make the rent and bills and for good reason. I really have no comment except please, PLEASE do not take money from other people that really need it just so u can have your precious keeping up with the jones. This is really frustrating for me to read!

shalhevet

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:19 am

First they need to provide for those who lack the basics. If there's anything left ...

Secondly the halacha is also that a person is not allowed to get into debts which he has no means of paying. And it certainly doesn't mean that a person should allow himself to live amongst his means.
"Asei Shabatcha chol ve'al tiztareich labrios"
Make your Shabbos like a weekday and don't make yourself reliant on others. And that's talking about buying for Shabbos, not expensive cars. Mad

DefyGravity

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 6:53 am

amother wrote:

there is a halacha that if a rich man looses all his money the town has to donate for him to keep up his origianal lifstyle because that is what he is used to.

Whether this is meant literally or not doesn't matter in this case. The original poster doesn't have money because they were irresponsible. . . and it seems to me that they do have money, they're just selfish and would rather use the money for "fun stuff", rather than food and necessities.

Part of being a grown up is realizing that you can't always go on vacation and buy unecessary items. If you're starving because you needed a stupid car and had to go on a silly vacation, then I have no pity for you. Maybe the hunger pangs in your stomach will make you realize that your car could've been thousands of dollars in food. But no, you won't realize that b/c someone's just going to bail you out, and then you're going to dig yourself right back into the same hole.

gryp

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 7:03 am

Original amother: is the worry and frustration and lack of food and paying bills late worth the vacations, cars, and other expensive extras? it wouldnt be to me.

I think Marion gave great advice: give postdated checks for the first of the month to your landlord for the next few months. and pay for what you need only in cash.

as far as buying the luxuries before the necessities, I'm speechless. I consider not paying a landlord on time as stealing from him, and not buying necessities for yourself and your children as neglect. Confused

Quote:

and it seems to me that they do have money, they're just selfish and would rather use the money for "fun stuff", rather than food and necessities.

either that, or that's why they had $15,000 in cc debt. Confused

amother, I'm really sorry to be so harsh, but responsible adults can't act like this especially when your kids are relying on you. What

dont you think your baby would rather have enough clean diapers and bottles than a fancy car? Crying

Quote:

if a rich man looses all his money

it doesnt sound to me that there ever was a time that this man was rich.

JMto2

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 7:10 am

I feel its not even correct to drive in luxury cars when you owe your landlord money. Poor guy rented out an apartment to help pay his mortgage and his tenants are living a grand life while he has to struggle. I took away all my husbands money to get on track I found that when it was in his pocket it got spent and it works like a charm I make sure the bills get paid and we are both happy he does not want to go into debt. And you as a capable person can babysit at home there is always a demand for it and it is quite good money making. IF you are not the type struggle it out until you are back on track money wise and if you think it will be an embarassment you tell people things are a bit tight now etc. that is better then the landlord going around saying you do not pay him rent etc. I will stop rambling this just makes me mad and sick.

amother

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 11:13 am

OP here. Thank you everyone for your input, positive and negative. I was not looking for advice but thank you anyway. Some might be helpful, especially the one with the head checks. I just feel the need to explain one point. The inyun of being dan lchaf zchus. (Crayon, don't roll your eyes) I know it is very hard in this case, especially when you have double incomes, no luxury lifestyle and you're STILL sruggling. Everyone would agree that I do not need to disclose my reasons and life in general, just so you can understand and not judge. That is precisely what the mitvah is, to try and LOOK for a reason... but anyway, for your sake, I will explain some things. My vacation was sponsored by someone who knew my situation, I wasn't well at the time and I needed to take a break from the kids... For the same reason I had to put my two yr old into daycare (which is being paid with tax return)... a doctor costs more than those things and even if u think I got a cleaning lady (which my doc told me to for my health) I don't. Anyway, my point is, don't judge anyone. I also love the way my original message is right there but pple like to distort it and bring it on to a totally diff level. Some pple added stuff. Some assumed without even questioning me. Now I see how rumors get created...

DefyGravity

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:18 pm

Quote:

We drive the latest cars. Go on vacations. Two cellphones... I tried minimizing but my dh is soo used to a better life that he can't control himself. Loans, credit cards... My fil actually paid up a fifteen thousand debt we had with a million cc making us promise it'll never happen again. Uh huh. whatever.

Nobody distorted anything. You said right here, "we go on vacations," implying that you didn't have money because you wasted in on unecessary trips.

Unless this isn't your post and everyone is assuming that it is.

Piper

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:25 pm

No, that is her post. I am confused by the OP. She keeps changing her story. So, to the OP, what is the deal? Are you really driving fancy cars and taking vacations, or what? What do you mean you are not well? What is really going on?

chocolate moose

Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:51 pm

What's the difference? Start now.

Return everything to stores that still has tags on it. Eat from the pantry and freezer.

Be crazy frugal - add water to your shampoo. Don't buy juice.

You'll get there........if you are dedicated.

Crayon210

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 11:26 am

SaraG wrote:

You'll get there........if you are dedicated.

100%.

de_goldy

Mon, Oct 30 2006, 9:24 am

I hope you realise that if you go to a gemach you are "stealing" from those who truly need it.

smily

Mon, Oct 30 2006, 12:33 pm

A gemach is for those who truly need it, like paying your rent, even if you you need it because of poor planing and spending habits.

Crayon210

Mon, Oct 30 2006, 12:37 pm

And if you decide that you're going to continue in poor spending habits and not get a job...? Is that still what a gemach is for? Have you verified that with a gemach?

chocolate moose

Mon, Oct 30 2006, 12:56 pm

When we owed so much in credit cards and student loans, it never occurred to use to take a gemach. I think they have to be paid back within a year anyay, and there was no way we could do that.

It is a shame to pay interest, though.