Which things will you do or not do on the bus?

Tablepoetry

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 4:05 am

I agree with ora and ewa-jo. If you are eating on the run, it is socially acceptable to eat things that are 'fast food' so to speak - food that was bought at the kiosk or food that can be held in your hand (an apple, a sandwich).
Container food requires sitting down with utensils, preferably by a table, and that's a kind of formal eating that isn't 'done' by adults on bus benches or waiting rooms. It does seem weird, somehow socially out of place.

I honestly don't see adults usually eating in waiting rooms at all. Drinking coffee or a cold soft drink, yes, but not eating, not even a snack. OTOH it is quite common to eat on long bus rides (but again, not container food).

chanchy123

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 4:06 am

Squishy wrote:

chanchy123 wrote:

RachelEve14 wrote:

I think you should be able to feed your kids lunch before the bus comes. Unless you decide at the last minute, they are old enough to be fed a bit before. I would give my kids something like pita and chummos if I had to (no crumbs), but it wouldn't be a first choice by far. I would not give them rice or anything they could spill / make a mess of on the bus.

Feeding the baby I would not wake her up just to feed, I see no issue with nursing discretely on the bus.

If you disturbed another's davaning I don't really think it's your issue, it's not a shul, it's a bus. If she couldn't get up / get out early enough / whatever to davan before she got on the bus it's not your issue.

Also there is a big difference between a 40 minute bus ride and a 2 hour one. Unless you suddenly needed to catch a bus for some type of emergency there is no reason not to have yourself / your older kids fed before going out. They can wait the hour it takes to wait for the bus and get off it.

I always bring my kids a small snack when we take the bus, to help them sit quietly without bothering the other passengers. I would give them anything out of a container, but a fruit, or some cookies for sure.
We don't travel by bus that often, but I think keeping them from shouting, kicking and crying is more important than keeping the bus clean. There is nothing worse than traveling on a bus (plane whatever) with kids who are being rude and loud without the parents even trying to deal with the situation.

But why aren't you responsible for keeping the bus clean from the mess your kids make? There should be respect for the next passenger. I don't let my kids leave a mess anywhere. It is not a choice of a public mess or well behaved kids. Do your kids eat the entire 40 minutes?

I didn't mean I'd let them make a mess on the bus, it's just that keeping the bus clean is not an excuse for loud and rude children. My bus ride is about an hour and whenever any of my kids gets into a moving vehicle the first thing they say is that they are hungry and thirsty.

I always make sure my kids don't litter and make a mess and I would either make them clean up or do it myself.

chanchy123

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 4:07 am

Squishy wrote:

chanchy123 wrote:

RachelEve14 wrote:

Inspired

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 6:37 am

ewa-jo wrote:

If someone doesn't know your situation (that you're from out of town and are taking care of 5 errands that day) then it seems weird that you brought food to eat at the bank or doctor's office. But it seems more normal that your shopping took longer than you planned and you buy a coffee and pastry at the tachana mercazit and eat it while you're waiting for the bus.

Really, who the heck cares? If I need to take 3 buses that take me 4 hours to get to a hospital to be with my sick relative I really don't care what Mrs.nosy body across the aisle thinks of me taking out yesterdays leftover rice and beans and eating it cold from a container followed by putting on my eyeliner on the bus (chul people these are coach buses, btw) and then having a"private conversation" out loud on my cell phone with friend about the serious condition of said relative and maybe even breaking down in tears.

Again, it all depends on the circumstances. Maybe I also have a newborn baby with me who needs to nurse and have his/ her diaper changed. All things, including humans survive better when they are adaptable. Rigid unbendable rules that don't allow change for circumstances are not useful, ever.

Other people are not always going to know what the particular circumstances of your life are. I don't assume I know the circumstances of the lives of others. Luckily, although I lack that info I do posses a neck, eyelids, a brain and a chiyuv of danlikaf zechus.

freidasima

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 8:35 am

That's because there are accepted social conventions that most people in our part of the world live by. And while a particular person may not care about flouting convention and may even enjoy doing it bedavka, there are others including their closest and dearest, who are greatly embarrased by such behavior. Particularly if one is also teaching children by example to flout social convention.

So what does one indeed do when one is out with children all day long? Well first, one prepares the kind of food that won't make anyone turn around and say "huh" and draw attention to onesself. That is also part of tznius, so I was taught, not drawing attention to onesself not only by dress but by actions or behaviors. What is "acceptable food" as Table and others have stated? First, the kind of food that doesn't fall apart into little pieces. Rice, beans, corn or really crumbly things are certainly going to make people turn around and look or comment. OTOH a sliced apple, orange segments (primarily for adults, with little kids that can get messy), a pear, grapes on the vine, dried fruit. All good. For those who can't or won't eat gluten then rice crackers, rice, buckwheat or oat muffins, even a peeled hard boiled egg (peel in advance, wrap) are all on the "good" list. A banana is great. For older children and adults, nuts and raisins. All natural, all gluten free, all can be gotten organic if one goes that route.

Now where to eat? Well if one is out with small children for eight or nine hours there is a much more pressing issue than "food in" - it is "food out". What does that person do for her children's bathroom needs? The same place one finds bathrooms one can often look around creatively and find a table and chairs to sit and eat. Buildings have stairwells that are often clean - set down a few paper towels and sit on them on the stairs and eat out of sight of the world. Parks, definitely. When going out with a nursing baby and walking around from errand to errand and from store to store for five or six hours that infant will want to nurse...unless one is the kind of person to nurse standing up while walking obviously there was a place to sit down and nurse. Is it the kind of place one can also eat? Feed one's children?

Remember, while it is easy to say "one shouldn't be rigid" there is the other side of the coin, those people who don't organize themselves half on purpose because they may even get a subliminal kick of flouting convention. Why? It's like those people who are always late, and are actually saying to the world "I'm more important than you and my needs and schedule is more important than yours so YOU are going to wait for ME and not the other way around. Some people who are flouting convention are doing it in a sense to say "world this is ME and I am going to do just what I want to do and you can either like it or leave it but I'm not going to change to suit anyone's idea of what is correct".

Just remember that when such a person will later make rules for their kids, good chance those children may absorb that subliminal message and refuse to change to suit anyone's idea of what is correct, including that of their parents.

Tablepoetry

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 9:45 am

Inspired wrote:

Note to FS who is, I would have to assume, based on the wording and placement of her post is referring to me as someone who ignores convention, with pride, just because.
This is my first post on the thread:

Inspired wrote:

It all depends on the circumstances.

That is my rule in life, and yes I am very adaptable and yes, I have survived things many people would not, because of it. You do what you have to do even if small minded people who have never had to question their rigid rules and social convention because of difficult life circumstances don't understand it.

Inspired, I agree with you that there are cases where social convention is truly irrelevant.
And there are less extreme cases where social convention is just too inconvenient to follow.

BUT....there are cases where with a bit of effort one can follow social convention and not embarrass those near and dear to you. In Seraph's case, her dh was clearly embarrassed, and others here have stated that they too would be embarrassed, so it's something to consider.

Inspired

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 9:52 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

Inspired wrote:

It all depends on the circumstances.

That is why I didn't respond after she said that. I really don't know what to say. She has to come to some compromise with her husband, who I don't think is on the bus with her when she is eating out of the container or whatever. I am not going to get involved in her shalom bayis. I have said my piece I think.
It depends on the circumstances and one has to consider all aspects of the situation when deciding on a course of action.

freidasima

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 10:16 am

Inspired as Table implied I was NOT referring to you. I was referring gently to Seraph but now because of your misunderstanding I have to say it less gently as I don't want you to think I was talking about you.

The minute she wrote that her husband was not happy with her behavior and embarrased by it, it puts a different light on the problem of "flouting social convention". If one's whole family is on board with it, so be it and in your case I assume that's the issue. But in her case when she writes that he is unhappy about what she does and she also writes that she isn't organized and doesn't get to feed her children before taking the bus and just runs for it at the last moment or whatever she wrote...well that opens a whole different scenario of issues that have little to do with what you wrote.

Barbara

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 10:59 am

shalhevet wrote:

Now I'm starting to feel embarrassed because I never thought twice about eating on an intercity bus (a piece of fruit, crackers, even a yoghurt). Sometimes I have errands in Yerushalayim and I take a bus at 7am. I don't usually have time to daven before leaving. I daven and then eat something on the bus.

Afterwards I won't have anywhere to eat. I don't see what's wrong in eating quietly and sitting down on the bus, rather than walking along the street or in a store. Ditto my kids. I might not have anywhere to eat (or to use the toilet) for several hours afterwards.

IMNSHO, davening is fine on the bus, so long as you're not scolding others who are chatting or doing whatever they do on the bus, for disturbing you.

And I would think that a yogurt is a little on the odd side and a bit messy on a bus (says she who just spilled her yogurt), but not THAT outre that I'd comment upon it later in the day.

The point is not to do anything that will disturb others, create a mess, or create sights or smells that others may not care for. Loud conversations, esp loud cell phone conversations -- no. Quiet chatting -- yes. Davening -- yes. Putting on mascara -- yes. Brushing hair, plucking eyebrows, shaving (yes, I've seen all 3) - NO NO NO. Changing diapers -- no. Messy foods, which includes anything drippy, sticky, or in small pieces (including rice and the dreaded Cheerios) -- no. Smelly foods -- heavens, no.

As to where to eat, parks have been mentioned. Food courts. Some building have an atrium that would be OK. I'd be amazed if any city didn't have dozens of places where one could eat, if one sought them out. The reason these places are more acceptable is proximity. I don't want to be stuck immediately in front of you, or next to you, smelling your food. But in an open space, where I'm many feet away, and have freedom of movement, enjoy yourself.

shalhevet

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 11:11 am

Barbara wrote:

As to where to eat, parks have been mentioned. Food courts. Some building have an atrium that would be OK. I'd be amazed if any city didn't have dozens of places where one could eat, if one sought them out. The reason these places are more acceptable is proximity. I don't want to be stuck immediately in front of you, or next to you, smelling your food. But in an open space, where I'm many feet away, and have freedom of movement, enjoy yourself.

I was talking about shopping/ errands in Geula in Yerushalayim. I would have to take another bus for a park. Bnei Brak would be the same - except I don't usually travel first thing in the morning.

About davenning - I totally agree with the others here. Anyone can daven on the bus. As long as you don't expect everyone around you to behave as if they are in a shul. Too much noise/ talking? Your problem.

The only time I would say quiet talking is inappropriate is on a long distance bus (say 2 hours or more journey) late at night, when I think people can expect quiet to sleep.

Raisin

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 11:48 am

I had 3 hours today from picking up one kid to picking up the next lot, and I needed to go into town and buy some things. Not a lot of things, but by the time we left the house, we were half an hour down. then waiting for the bus, half hour ride - that left 1.5 hours to do my shopping. Yes, easy enough to find a place to sit down and eat, (most shopping malls or areas have food courts where you can sit down and eat) and if my kids were all grown up, (like FS kids are) maybe I would have done that. But I think parents of grown up kids forget how precious every minute is when you are running around.

I enjoyed my sandwich on the bus, but if I needed to bring a container of salad or whatever, due to diet restrictions, I would enjoy that too. Making sure to clean up of course. I would try and avoid smelly foods. (hot food smells more I think)

On an intercity bus I would think it is certainly acceptable to eat.

HindaRochel

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 12:44 pm

Inspired wrote:

Seraph wrote:

Ok, so its weird looking. But is it rude/ill mannered enough that better I and my kids go hungry for hours (because food restrictions means I can't just pick up a sandwich from a kiosk) than eat from a container?

Absolutely not. I really don't think you should care that much.

Agree. Try and be respectful of other people, that is, don't leave a mess, don't talk so loud the whole bus knows your business, I wouldn't change diapers generally because I wouldn't be able to clean my hands but even that, you must you must. Bring wipes or something to clean your hands with.

freidasima

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 2:33 pm

Well first I never really ran around with my kids. I did MY errands when they were with a metapelet or not with me, either babysitter or friends. If I needed to take THEM for something it was rarely a full day thing and then certainly not with all of them ever actually. I was very organized in the sense of making sure the only thing they would really need out of the house would be a bathroom and a bottle of water and rarely did I buy them something outside to eat, I also knew all the free bathrooms and places that we could sit and rest and if necessary get something to eat and sit at a table. They really do exist all over, but they cost money, it's not always free.