Teacher told my daughter OUD is OK to eat. Is it?

amother

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 7:48 pm

My husband is livid. I was brought up OUD. My husband is CY. My daughter does not want to keep CY anymore.

Can someone please explain why my husband is so against this? Does he have any justification? I can't understand the way he explains this. Is he right or is the teacher? I can't wrap my mind around this.

morah

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 7:56 pm

OUD is fine. It is not CY, so if you keep CY, then you can't have it. But that's not really the issue here. First of all, even people who keep CY agree that non-CY is not treif- why is your husband acting like it is? The other issue is that there's only so much you can make an older child do (I'm assuming your daughter is a teen. It sure sounds like it). Anyway, remind your husband that CY is NOT treif, and if he doesn't want to see your daughter start eating real treif, he'd better let this slide.

ETA: if you're a CY home, she has to keep it under your roof. But you can't control what she does when she's not home (and in this particular case, it's not worth any battle). I actually know a couple where te wife keeps CY and the husband doesn't. They keep it at home, but when he's out, he'll eat M&Ms, or a bagel with Philadelphia cream cheese or whatever.

Last edited by morah on Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 7:56 pm

Teachers have a way of overstepping their bounds and making blanket statements that can irk parents because we don't know the ramifications of our words. I can say that, I'm a teacher...

Hechsherim falls into the spiritual category and since the dh is in charge of setting the spiritual level of a home he has a right to establish this guideline and your dd needs to listen to it. She needs to see you on board with it as well.

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 7:57 pm

morah wrote:

In other words a child should be allowed to set her own kashrus guidelines lest she go completely off the derech?

morah

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:01 pm

groisamomma wrote:

morah wrote:

In other words a child should be allowed to set her own kashrus guidelines lest she go completely off the derech?

If she's old enough to be eating stuff out of the house, yes. I edited mine to say that she can't bring it home. But is it worth being "livid" over a chumrah? Absolutely not.

peasachmom

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:05 pm

they both are right. in the us milk has to be by law 100% cows milk. that is why oud is ok. cy is a higher level of stringancy and realy is the way kosher milk should be.oud is more of a heter thing( pre WWII jews did not have cy milk and were told that they can drink milk from a non jewish dairy farm because of the law.) and but thats not realy the issue. if the household is makpid to only drink cy than thats what your dd should do. there are all types of minhagim and stuff that people are makpid on that other households are not. your daughter should not eat oud out of repect for her parents and the household that they are raising.

hope your dd takes this piece of info well

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:12 pm

peasachmom wrote:

they both are right. in the us milk has to be by law 100% cows milk. that is why oud is ok. cy is a higher level of stringancy and realy is the way kosher milk should be.oud is more of a heter thing( pre WWII jews did not have cy milk and were told that they can drink milk from a non jewish dairy farm because of the law.) and but thats not realy the issue. if the household is makpid to only drink cy than thats what your dd should do. there are all types of minhagim and stuff that people are makpid on that other households are not. Your daughter should not eat oud out of repect for her parents and the household that they are raising.

hope your dd takes this piece of info well

The bolded, if for no other reason.

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:16 pm

morah wrote:

groisamomma wrote:

morah wrote:

In other words a child should be allowed to set her own kashrus guidelines lest she go completely off the derech?

If she's old enough to be eating stuff out of the house, yes. I edited mine to say that she can't bring it home. But is it worth being "livid" over a chumrah? Absolutely not.

Sounds to me like she's still living under their roof, so she should abide by their kashrus standards. FYI to some people it is not a chumrah, their rabbis hold that it's halacha.

Interesting point (bec. I know people will quote R' Moshe Feinstien about OUD): It is said that although R' Moshe was mattir OUD for people, he himself would never eat it. Once, when he found out that his daughter had served him something that was OUD he went to the bathroom and vomited it up. So for some people it's halacha, not chumra.

amother

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:27 pm

OP here: My daughter is ten. She does eat out of the house sometime. I forgot to mention her father died and was OUD. My husband is a very good man. He is very sincere in his beliefs. She looks to him completely as a father. I am not arguing with the decision to raise the kids CY. I would not budge him. I can't explain this to my daughter because I just don't understand yet.

I understand the history.

Would someone be able to explain it to me so I can explain it to a child?

amother

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:32 pm

groisamomma wrote:

morah wrote:

groisamomma wrote:

morah wrote:

In other words a child should be allowed to set her own kashrus guidelines lest she go completely off the derech?

If she's old enough to be eating stuff out of the house, yes. I edited mine to say that she can't bring it home. But is it worth being "livid" over a chumrah? Absolutely not.

OP here: my husband says it is halacha. So he is right? My husband would do something that drastic. How do you reconcile that my husband says holacha and her school is just teaching her it is better.

seeker

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:32 pm

I'd love to hear from someone who witnessed the R' Moshe vomiting story. Sounds like a real stretch. I know grandchildren of R' Moshe eat OUD without hesitation. The vending machine in his yeshiva sold OUD snacks.

However, questionable quotations aside, there is validity to both practices of eating OUD and eating only CY. I am pretty disturbed that a teacher would make blanket statements at all about hechsherim. I am a teacher and I am careful never to pasken halachos for my students. If it were something like an incident in which a student brought something to school and someone else said "that's treif!" the farthest I would go is to say something like "It has a hechsher on it; each child is to eat only the hechsherim that their parents permit." Not "it's good" or "it's bad."

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:36 pm

seeker wrote:

By grandchildren, I assume you mean the ones who obviously don't interpret CY as halacha, only as a chumra. OP's husband doesn't sound like he's from that kind of crowd.

(edited by a mod to delete information about a specific family.)

Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I wrote that.

Last edited by groisamomma on Thu, Mar 29 2012, 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total

NEvergiveup

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:38 pm

Dear Amother,

The heter of CY, as I was taught at home when I was a kid and took the explanation with me into adulthood is:

OUD is not Treife, but is not mehudar, Baruch Hashem we live in a country with an abundance of kosher food and CY food. There were times that this wasn't so readily available, so people ate Chalov Stam. Where we live and when we live, we don't have to rely on the heter, but want to be Mehudar yiden.

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:43 pm

amother wrote:

OP here again. My husband is not a rabbi. He did make himself throw up something also so I know it is done. He is sleeping so I can't ask him.

He doesn't have to be a rabbi to keep CY. And he also doesn't have to get intimidated by your dd and allow it in the house if he feels it's halacha.

As for explaining it to your dd, she does not need a long-winded explanation about its history and reasons. I have this on a regular basis with my kids. We live in a neighborhood where many families don't keep CY and my kids also ask about it. They are satisfied with the answer, "Every family has their own standards. Ours is not to eat OUD, and your friend's family does eat it. Just as every family has their own set of rules." End of story. She's only ten years old.

groisamomma

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:44 pm

NEvergiveup wrote:

Exactly. And it doesn't have to be said in a haughty, holier-than-thou way.

jelly belly

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:58 pm

groisamomma wrote:

seeker wrote:

By grandchildren, I assume you mean the ones who obviously don't interpret CY as halacha, only as a chumra. OP's husband doesn't sound like he's from that kind of crowd.

I don't know what you mean by "that kind of crowd." I do know others who happily eat oud. Grandchildren of Rav Moshe Feinstein also laugh at all the stories people make up about their grandfather. Just saying.

(edited by a mod to remove information about specific families. Please refrain from posting personal information about others.)

amother

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:59 pm

groisamomma wrote:

NEvergiveup wrote:

Exactly. And it doesn't have to be said in a haughty, holier-than-thou way.

OP here: I am sorry; but I don't understand. I feel really stupid; but I can't get it. I don't mean to be so dense.

I can tell my daughter to do things this way. I would prefer to understand myself.