Tznius clothing on children - when do you start?

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Apr 26 2012, 8:57 pm

The chazon ish is more meikil than the chofetz chaim, FTR.

amother, many people hold that many of the additional things taken on (like knee socks/tights) don't have to be started at 3, as it's not halacha k'pshuto. So things like that these people will add on, and just start with skirts and sleeves at 3. That's what I meant. I know there are many who are makpid on tights and long sleeves from 3, but it's not an across the board psak by far.

Tova

Thu, Apr 26 2012, 9:25 pm

My niece in E"Y at age 3 started wearing tights every day and that was very foreign to us.

I'm surprised even about knee socks starting school age. I remember starting wearing knee socks at about bas mitzva.

No tights rule in my house as I rarely wear tights during the week myself, winter or summer.

My husband hates sleeveless for both genders, so even for our daughter since birth she has always had a bit of a sleeve. Since she was walking age my husband also preferred a decent sleeve - not just a short ruffle or whatever. It makes it very hard to find summer shirts for her; last year I just bought her boy ones that were in nicer colors - ie, yellow, turquoise, etc. She's nearly 3.5 and while I'd have loved for her to stop wearing pants at 3, she was resistant (plus she turned 3 in Nov. and SO convenient for her to be in pants over the winter). She is the oldest in her playgroup and most/all the girls still wear pants - some are not even 3 yet - so we decided not to enforce it until the school year starts. This coming school year she'll actually be on the younger side in her playgroup and no girls wear pants to this Morah so it's perfect.

RachelEve14

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 1:46 am

GetReal wrote:

little_mage wrote:

I will admit that this is completely academic for me at the moment, as I only have the one infant boy, but if we have a daughter, we plan to try to have skirts as much as possible, especially once she's out of the onsie stage. The thing is that skirts take more practice to manage then pants. On some levels, I actually think it can be harder to be tzinus in a skirt then in pants. A little toddler who can't keep her skirt down, pulls it up, etc., is cute. An older girl (4-5) is much less cute and more awkward. We're hoping that by keeping our hypothetical daughter in skirts from a young age she'll be able to manage them more naturally.

as the mother of a daughter, I will just point out that when a little girl is learning to crawl and walk, skirts are almost impossible to manage. Now my dd is 2 and walking well BH but when we go to the park, I see she keeps tripping on skirts and dresses and stepping on the hem as she climbs the ladders, etc. Unless the skirt is really short, in which case pants and shorts are more tznius anyway.

We start tznius at 3 and I intend to keep her in mainly shorts this summer, or skorts. Next summer she'll have to be in skirts.

I agree. Rivka was wearing skirts around 2 because her big sisters were and she wanted to also. The metapelet asked me to please send shorts or pants, she kept falling at the park tripping over the ladders, etc. It's especially a problem because most people buy clothing a bit big, and you can't just fold up a skirt so they don't trip on it the way you can fold up pants. By the time she was 2.5 to 3 she was managing fine in skirts, but not right at 2.

chanchy123

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 2:57 am

I voted 6-11 but that is a really long time period.
I basically also believe in the gradual process of dress tzniusly. I think mainly because tznius has a diferent meaing for every age. I don't think there is any concept of tznius until a child is about two or three, so it's not even an issue, I do teach my 2.5 yo DD to go to the bathroom alone for tznius reasons - but that's chinuch. Gradually, kids learn about privacy and tznius, you don't walk around in your underwear or naked in front of other people etc.

My oldest is now 7(well in a few weeks) finishng first grade. She wears pants but prefers skirts because they are girlier, her school won't allow leggings only actual pants, and that sounds resonable to me too, also they don't alow shorts or mini skirts, which also seems like the right thing for her age, (while I have no issue with a five yo wearing a very short skirt or shorts), but she does wear skirts over her knees.

I don't mind if she wears short short sleeves until she's about 11 and pants as well. Since I don't really see that as an issue of tznius. I believe that halachicly you need sleeves to the elbow, but I don't think a shorter sleeve is immodest, so it would be like other halachot that you take upon when you approach bat mitzva. Pants - I'm more abmivilant about. Since, I don't think baggy feminine pants or pants with a tunic over them are untznius, but I don't wear them for reasons of social identity. So I don't know yet when and I if I will enforce no pants. I do wear pants on tiyulim or to work out, or whatever if they are more tznius than a skirt for that specific activity.

Since I miyself do not wear sock or stockings when I don't really have to, I have no intention of teaching my kids to do the same.

My son is five and a half and very tznius concious, he won't let anyone see him when gets dressed etc.
I don't find shorts untznius on boys (I mean longish shorts), so I don't see any reason for him to stop weraing them, I think most highschools won't allow shorts as part of the dress code, but the kids wear them out of school, espcially for sports, tiyulim, maunal labor.

I guess my goal is to teach my kids to have inner tznius, and have their clothes mainfest thier tznius, not the other way around.

EDIT - for tznius and practical reasons, I prefer my DDs to wear pants every day, until they finish gan. My oldest wanted to wear more skirts like some of her friends, so she would wear bikers shorts underneath her skirts.

DrMom

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 3:09 am

I have, B"H, active children, so I don't like to put undue restructions on their clothing if I feel it compromises their comfort or safety.

That said, I never put my children in sleeveless tops -- for boys, I think it looks awful, and for girls, I figure she can be quite comfortable in very lightweight short sleeved tops, so why get her used to something she'll have to get un-used to at a later stage?

Skirts are not so tznua for an active child. Even if I put her in bike shorts underneath, she has a tendency to trip on the hem when climbing up stairs. For now, I put her in shorts (not hot-pants, but shorts) and pants.

Ruchel

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 8:10 am

I would be more lenient if I didn't believe in the need for consistency and not making something a fight (as opposed to a natural habit).

I would put a tunic with leggings instead of pants, personally, to get the kid used to the skirt. Skirts never prevented Mati from being very active Twisted Evil

lol

I also do some things purely for social reasons or school dress code reasons. Attaching hair is not a tznius "thing" for my own rav, but in school she needs it. I dislike that it is asked for, as it's not like the moms and morot attach their long sheitel/hair...

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 9:31 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I learned something here on imamother. I didn't know pants was an issue from age 3. My bigger girls still wore pants (really mostly leggings with dresses/tunics, as they were more girly) in 3 year old playgroup. At kindergarten (4 years old here in Lakewood) I noticed no one was wearing pants or leggings so my girls stopped.

My younger DD is in a three-year-old playgroup that is slightly more right wing, and no one wears pants/leggings so she already stopped this year. I actually found it a bit annoying, as leggings are easier to deal with than tights on a small child, and they get less holes too.

I guess by my next child I'll clarify with my Rav...I might have misunderstood. He told me I could start tznius stuff like knee socks and long sleeves at 5 or Primary. I remember asking about skorts when my DD was 4 and he had no problem with it, but maybe that's different than actual long pants.

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 9:33 am

sky wrote:

Tova wrote:

I'm surprised even about knee socks starting school age. I remember starting wearing knee socks at about bas mitzva.

No tights rule in my house as I rarely wear tights during the week myself, winter or summer.

Thats Baltimore. I don't think we ever had a knee sock rule, maybe it started when I was in high school. Or it could be our leg just had to be covered. I'm not sure.

My mother says that in the 1950's in Boro Park, no one wore knee socks or tights until Bas Mitzvah, except for some very Chassidish. In BY type schools it was almost unheard of.

little_mage

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 9:34 am

RachelEve14 wrote:

GetReal wrote:

little_mage wrote:

Thanks for the advice. Like I said, we don't have a daughter yet, so it's all hypothetical for me. We'll have to see what actually happens if we ever do have a girl.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 10:01 am

Chayalle wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Even pants is part of the machlokes between the CA and CC if I understand it correctly. So there is definitely room to allow pants past 3, if you don't hold by the chofetz chaim.

Ignore my post from last night. I don't think I wrote a single thing coherently there. That's what happens when you try to type while on the phone Very Happy