SIL said I need her "permission" to "use"

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 5:42 am

I am also one who doesnt think it so wierd to ask first, I would.

I DO think its wierd for her to say that you HAVE to ask her first, but in her family that might be how they do things.

saw50st8

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 5:54 am

If you don't plan to call her Shoshy, then I would name her shoshana and say "Oh I thought you meant if we call her Shoshy since thats what you are called. We are calling her Shoshana."

Raisin

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 6:45 am

even if you love the name, do you really want your daughter to have the same name as her obnoxious, self centered aunt?

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 7:08 am

You said she said to ask? So maybe do that. Make it a whole serious thing, and put her in a position where she can't refuse (I.e. do it publicly in front of your family), but go ahead and ask.

Just because you have the right to use the name doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. For the sake of peace you should try to make her happy by asking first.

Some people are happy to give things - they just like to be asked. I have no idea if she is like this, but it's worth a try.

iluvy

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 7:52 am

chaylizi wrote:

iluvy wrote:

chaylizi wrote:

Sounds like she already knew you like the name Shoshana and is purposely being obnoxious. While it is kind of infantile, I would make a point of telling her that you have had your heart set on this name since before you knew her and you have no intention of asking her permission. Just so she knows how things are. It's much better than surprising her and having a possibly public scene.

I agree with the content of this, but it probably would be politic to frame it more as "Shoshy, since you brought this up with me, I wanted to tell you in advance that we do plan to name the baby Shoshana. I feel really bad that you are sensitive about this, but I've had my heart set on having a daughter named Shoshana for years."

And again, "I'm sorry you're upset about this, but this is really important to me. I'm telling you in advance so that you can get used to it."

Be sweet, apologize, and do what you want!

I agree she should be more polite than what I wrote in my post (it really wasn't intended to be a script), but I really fail to see what she should be apologizing for.

Oh, me too! I just meant for the purpose of smoothing things over a bit - you don't want a family feud over this.

groisamomma

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:19 am

I think she's being self-centered.

If, as other posters say, it is done this way in her family, let HER family ask her. This is NOT her family, it's her dh's, which is just as much OP's family as hers.

If you ask a rav, he will tell you to take the path of least resistance (fight) and to ask just to make her happy. Do what you want, but I would never give her the satisfaction.

Name her Shoshana and say loudly, "We will call her Shoshana, since Shoshy told me she is uncomfortable with us sharing her name." I always find that calling attention to something like this publicly makes the person retract their stand quite quickly all of a sudden.

rainbow dash

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:20 am

you should do what you and your dh wants to do. she sounds like a self centered little b****. my bil did that to me when we moved in on top of his mother ( he still lives at home) he said dont you dare put your ds in the room over mine. well, guess wha,t we did and he cant tell us what to do or not to do.

I think shes being a bully and that its your kid and you can name her what you want, shell just have to get over herself.

Good luck and dont let this get to you.

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:22 am

Wow. I've read through this whole thread, waiting for people to chime in as voices of reason. I've found one or two weak ones, but that's it. So here's my take on things.

Does she have the "right" to tell you what to name your baby? No, of course not.

Do you have the "right" to name your baby whatever you want, regardless of what she says? Yes, of course.

But regardless about the fact that she was in the wrong...why would you intentionally do something that you know will cause hard feelings? It's one thing if you had a strong reason for doing so -- naming after a grandmother, for instance. But you don't. "I like the name" is nice, but don't sit there and feel all self righteous about the fact that if you like the name, then it's your daughters "true" name and this sil is trying to take it away from you.

You're telling me there are NO other names that you like? For the sake of shalom, you can't find another name that you'd be happy with?

Again, I'm not saying that you "have to" choose another name. Or that she's justified in having said what she did. But I think that being sensitive to other's feelings, even if you don't think they should have them, is a good thing. Best thing you can do for your child is find another name -- or at least talk further with your sil about this.

We had a similar situation once, where a sil who had been married for a long time and had only girls had told me before her first was born that she wanted to name her first boy after a specific relative on my side. She had a nickname picked out and everything. Three girls later, she was still waiting to use that name. In the meantime, I was married and expecting and wanted to use the name as well, as it was a relative who I had been very close to. I knew that my sil (unlike me) thought it was weird for cousins to have the same name. I decided it wasn't worth the shalom issues it would cause if she would be upset, so I called her up and said we were thinking about using the same name, but we'd be calling him X -- not the nickname that she was planning on using. I was sure she'd be upset by it, but surprisingly, she was just grateful I had called beforehand to let her know, and she was really nice about the whole thing. I had my son, named him as planned, and was glad to know that nobody was upset by my choice.

(Anyway, she had her first son just two weeks after a different male relative passed away...so she still hasn't given the name that she wanted!)

Look, people have their hang ups. I'm sure you have yours. Wouldn't you want people to treat yours with sensitivity, even if they don't understand them? After 120 years, which one do you think would look "better" in your record book -- naming your child your second choice, or hurting someone and causing shalom problems in the family? Which one would you rather have there?

I don't know. To me, the logical answer is not what people have written here.

rainbow dash

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:22 am

and if she has a fit over it then shell look like the baby!!!!!!!!!!!

myself

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:22 am

IMO you don't need to ask at all, she'll get over it, but whatever you do, don't ask before the baby is born...

OOTforlife

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:28 am

If she's otherwise always been wonderful and reasonable and this is a one-off weird hangup, I would just go along with it. When I have a friend or loved one who is consistently supportive, reasonable and unselfish, I give them 1-2 "free passes" to be crazy and unreasonable (I'm talking lifetime passes, or at least decade passes, not every few months), as long as the demand is not something horribly taxing. But if this is not completely surprising given her prior behavior, then just do whatever you were going to do anyway.

chocolate chips

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 11:15 am

This reminds me of when I was talking to my sils and mil and I was pregnant. I said if its a girl I love the name x.
My mil was silent. Later my sil told me its the name of her ex-husbands new wife! LOL.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 11:48 am

I do understand sensitivity. But.
I'm assuming that this Shoshana wasn't named after anyone. Do you think expectations etc. might have been different had your SIL been named for someone and you decided to use this name because you loved it and heard nice things about the alta bubbe, etc.?

agreer

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 12:01 pm

I have a really simple suggestion inspired by another poster who spelled the name "Shoshanna".

If your SIL spells it "Shoshana", when she asks why you named your baby the same name, you can reply, "Oh, no, it's not the same name - it's 'Shoshanna' with 2 n's." DONE.

grin

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 12:17 pm

I dunno, I think we need to change the question - it's not if she has the "rights" to the name, of course she doesn't. I think you need to ask yourself though if the name is more important to you than your relationship with her and your brother, what would this do to that and to the whole family? would you be creating a family feud over a child's name? is that worth it to you?
maybe reframe it that you are giving your child the zechus of your being mevater for the sake of shalom?

HindaRochel

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 12:19 pm

I agree with the amother above. You do have a right to name your child whatever you want, but is it so important to you? If it is, then there might be hurt feelings, and you'll have to deal with that.

Have you asked her why she feels the way she does? Maybe if you know why it will help things out.

I wouldn't name a child after a relative who was still living, whether or not that relative was my marriage or whatnot, at least not without checking with that relative first!

mommyhood

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 12:30 pm

I would never dream of naming the same name as siblings and siblings in law unless I was naming after someobody who passed away who happened to have the same name. Otherwise I'd feel like I'm naming after someone who's alive.

NaNachChick

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 12:39 pm

thats the most riddicoulous thing ever. parents name thier kids w/ ruach hakodesh. not permission from thier parents or sil's.

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:05 pm

OP here. Thank you all for your posts! Some points:

My very unscientific poll (I.e. asking random people) tells me that most frum people would not name after living parents or grandparents (Ashkenazim, that is). But husband's brother's sisters? C'mon, that is taking it too far, sorry. Especially a common name! Where does one draw the line? What if my DH and I both come from large families and you're "passeling" every brother, sister, sisterinlaw, brotherinlaw, and kids - just from immediate family alone you could knock out 50 names off the bat! So I say - living parents and grandparents (maybe aunts and uncles of the PARENTS) and leave it at that.

As to "giving in" for the sake of peace - you can always say that for everything, right? At some point, if someone makes an exceedingly unreasonable request (and it wasn't a request - it was a DEMAND!) then I would say I would be entirely right to say NO.

Possibly if she would have worded it like this, I would be more inclined to give in to her mishegas: "wow, you're pregnant! We're so happy for you! I have this hangup but can I be so bold as to ask that you not name your daughter Shoshana? As the parents you can certainly do what you want, but I just wanted to put this request on the table since it's so important to me." Then maybe I could forgive her hangups, since yes, I have my hangups as well. But to DEMAND that I ask permission as if she owns the name? Just makes it harder for me to give in for the sake of peace when she's so obnoxious.

grin

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:11 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. Thank you all for your posts! Some points:

As to "giving in" for the sake of peace - you can always say that for everything, right? At some point, if someone makes an exceedingly unreasonable request (and it wasn't a request - it was a DEMAND!) then I would say I would be entirely right to say NO.

Possibly if she would have worded it like this, I would be more inclined to give in to her mishegas: "wow, you're pregnant! We're so happy for you! I have this hangup but can I be so bold as to ask that you not name your daughter Shoshana? As the parents you can certainly do what you want, but I just wanted to put this request on the table since it's so important to me." Then maybe I could forgive her hangups, since yes, I have my hangups as well. But to DEMAND that I ask permission as if she owns the name? Just makes it harder for me to give in for the sake of peace when she's so obnoxious.

yes, it is hard to be nice to obnoxious people, but it's so much more important and worthwhile. After all, if she weren't so obnoxious, she'd probably forgive and make up afterwards readily as well, so you wouldn't have to worry about too much.

so can you be more mature than she? and again, is this really worth the fight that may develop form it?